Evening cluster feeding - will I ever have enough milk?

[ChrissyJ]

Hi for the past week or so, my 10wk old has been cluster feeding in the late afternoon/ early evenings (and consequently sleeping longer at night, yay!).

I try to breast feed him at this time but several evenings he has not been satisfied when I have given him all I can from the boob, so I have reluctantly ff him.

I know that he has to demand more to make me produce more but how can I get this to happen without him going hungry and screaming the place down (not to mention the sore nips from feeding so often!)

He's just had a bf followed by 200ml of formula and he's still looking for more...

[shish]

You will produce enough. My ds used to do the same, but he didn't take the bottle until 6 months so I had no choice but to bf him. It really is supply and demand. The more you feed him at that time the more you'll rpoduce (- I think!) ;)

[theUrbanDryadLovesCremeEggs]

Chrissy, i went through this exact same thing with ds when he was 7wks. i just perservered for a couple of days, put him to the breast whenever he screamed, 20 mins each side, till it was 7 o clock, then i'd take him upstairs for bath and bed.

make sure you're eating plenty, i found a high carb diet, with plenty of high calorie fruit and veg like avocados and bananas helped. i also eat a lot of chocolate and drink full fat milk so perhaps that's why my baby weight isn't shifiting!!

are you sure his screaming the place down isn't due to wind? i found ds got very windy when i cluster fed him. also, i swear by Lansinoh for the sore nips. it's expensive, but it does work.

the other thing i suppose you could do - though i haven't tried this myself - is expressing a couple of oz in the morning and give it to him in the evening. that way you're keeping your milk supply up and giving him extra when he needs it! don't forget, the breast will keep up with the demand, but you need to give it a chance. good luck, you sound like you're doing really well!!

[hunkermunker]

You will produce enough if you don't formula feed him. If you introduce formula, your milk supply will drop.

He'll still drink formula, even if he's full of bmilk - like you can make room for pudding after you're full of dinner.

If yuo are sore, can you make sure he's latching well each time - I know it's hard.

If he's still looking for more, bfeed him again - swap sides (and back again).

He will settle again just on bmilk, I'm sure - but the formula will impact your supply just as he's trying to build it if you keep on with it, so I would try and not give it to him. You're doing very well - it is hard, I know x x x

[ChrissyJ]

Thanks I had thought of the expressing idea - just haven't been very organised in the morning recently.

I don't think it's wind because it's accompanied by headbutting, finger chewing etc. In fact he's whinging and licking my jumper right now (and this is AFTER a ff, sigh)

[ChrissyJ]

Thanks Hunker. I am finding it v hard cos when I feed him around this time it usually ends with him pulling off the breast, trying to get back on again and crying - which seems to me like he's not getting any so then I feel like I don't have any milk and resort to formula.

I have also just spent a week at both sets of grandparents who are v wellmeaning but I did get quite a bit of "well you were bottle fed as well as bf" and "when are you going to go over to the bottle?" (to which I replied I planned to bf until he was weaned) and "feeding AGAIN?".

[monkeymonkeymoomoo]

Sounds like he is comfort sucking, my DD use to do that for about 3 hours in the evening at that age! They get over stimulated and need time feeling reassured by you.

It's hard but I found sitting down in front of the TV surrounded my snacks and drinks and the remote control with DD feeding on and off was a good way of making more milk

[monkeymonkeymoomoo]

Tell 'em all to bugger of or don't let people visit in the evening... I found a 'we are too tired to have visitors at this time' a good excuse (and in a way it is true). It will pass in time and you are doing a fabulous job too

[MarsLady]

Chrissy, your baby is having a growth spurt common at this age.

The more you feed the more milk you'll produce. As Hunker says if you introduce formula you tell your breasts that that feed isn't necessary and your breast will stop producing it. It's a self-perpetuating cycle.

[ChrissyJ]

But if it takes a couple of days for supply to catch up with demand doesn't that mean that my lo is horribly hungry for those couple of days? This fear is why I've caved each time and gone for the bottle.

[MarsLady]

No. Just keep feeding on demand. If you give the bottle your breasts produce less (unless of course you express the milk). Your lo won't go hungry if you feed on demand. The growth spurts are the tiring times (for mums) but (and I know it doesn't seem it) it is for a very short time.

[monkeymonkeymoomoo]

No he won't go hungry, as I understand it your milk never dries up... the more he sucks the more it will produce. Can you have a 'Babymoon' where you have a day (not just the evening) or sitting down with your LO and just letting him suck as often as is needed? You should see the results of that quite quickly.

[MarsLady]

This post:

By monkeymonkeymoomoo on Sat 07-Apr-07 18:56:28
Tell 'em all to bugger of or don't let people visit in the evening... I found a 'we are too tired to have visitors at this time' a good excuse (and in a way it is true). It will pass in time and you are doing a fabulous job too

is fantastic advice! I would take it. Enjoy your babymoon. Spend time with the baby, skin to skin and feeding. Just relax and it will all come good. Besides, if you have no visitors you won't get over tired.

[MarsLady]

Monkeymonkey.... I can see we are meant to be lifelong friends! lol

[BizzyDint]

the way it works is your baby demands more in the build up to a growth spurt. you don't have to think about it at all other than to feed feed feed. no need for bottles at all. if he doesn't seem satisfied swap him to your other breast. and then do the same again. if he seems unhappy try different positions. my dd only used to like feeding laid on her right side, never on her left side. so one side i fed as normal, the other breast i fed in a rugby ball hold. she also used to like feeding laid down while dozing in the evenings before her 'bedtime.' at 10 weeks she more or less just followed me. so went up to bed in our room, in her basket, when we went up. so maybe from 7 til 10pm she pretty much just laid on her nursing pillow on me feeding a dozing.

[monkeymonkeymoomoo]

Hehe!!

[ChrissyJ]

Thanks for the advice. DS and I have a quiet week coming up so hopefully we'll get it sorted.

[adath]

Can only second third and whatever everyone else has said.
To answer your question in the subject no you may never have enough milk if you continue giving formula. I am not meaning that in a harsh way just fact.
Think of it like this your ds needs for example 5 feeds so he has to go to the breast five times for you to produce enough for 5 feeds but the way you are doing it is giving him 4 feeds on the breast and one from a bottle so your breasts will think he only needs 4 feeds. Next week he might need 6 feeds so rather than cluster feeding to catch up on the one jump from 5-6 you will need to jump from 4-6 which is 2 feeds to catch up on so continuing to give formula you will always be at least one feed behind to catch up on.

It is rather a simplistic way to look at it but it does kind of outline the supply and demand, the more your ds goes to the breast the more milk you will produce.

You are doing a fantastic job ditch the formula ignore the family and enjoy.

[Guitargirl]

For the first 8 weeks or so DD would feed almost constantly in the evenings from about 6pm onwards or at least that's what it would feel like. Am not sure if it was all feeding though or quite a lot of the time it was for comfort as she was quite colicky.

Well meaning grandparents couldn't understand why I wasn't topping her up with formula and almost made me feel as though I was deliberately depriving DD of something by not giving her formula.

It wasn't until I found MN that I realised how common this is as had never heard of cluster feeding before. The way I thought of it was if I gave DD formula in the evening then she was likely to sleep for longer and therefore possibly miss what would have been another breastfeed if she had never had the formula. Supply would then be all buggered up. Don't know if that makes sense!? I would agree with what everyone else has said here - keep going without the formula if you can!

[foxybrown]

Hi, have skimmed this thread, so s'cuse me if I'm repeating, but I'd definately express in the earlier part of the day when he's not feeding. Try to empty a breast completely to get off all the hind milk, and this should satisfy him more later in the day or freeze it for another time. Is he emptying the breast completely when he feeds?

Good luck

[yomellamoHelly]

One thing you could try is having a decent snack / small meal mid-afternoon and also plenty to drink. I always find I'm at my most tired late afternoon / early evening so it's no wonder sometimes that my ds struggles to get what he needs from me.
I also wouldn't turn to formula until we were both totally wound up either.
I've read on here that fenugreek is a good supplement to try, but there are others.

[hunkermunker]

Foxybrown, breasts are never completely empty.

Yomella, a snack will help your own blood sugar levels and maybe make it less frustrating to do the cluster feeds, but it won't make a sod of difference to milk quantity or quality.

[MarsLady]

Chrissy.... how's it going?

[foxybrown]

my point was to ensure as much hindmilk is given/expressed as this is the milk that satisfys the appetite. If the baby is snacking or pulling off too early they will be back on very quickly.

Sorry if I wasn't clear

[MarsLady]

Chrissy if you need info on expressing I can email something. lovelymarslady at aol dot com

[ChrissyJ]

Thanks for all advice ladies. He has just gone off to sleep. BFed him lots this afternoon, he fussed a lot but he always does at this time of day (4pm onwards). Anyway no formula today so hopefully...!

Foxy, I'm never sure if he really has finished the breast as when he pulls off it I can squeeze the nip and still get quite a spray out. But I do start him on the breast he last finished on so hopefully he gets hindmilk that way.

Monkeymonkey, I only realised much later why you called the "babymoon" that, great name!