Expressed Milk Feeds - Advice Welcome Please!

[Lizzzombie]

Hi, I have just discovered the joys of expressing and feeding my LO from the bottle. Its so much easier. I have HUGE boobs and rather than guess when he has had enough or not, I can now see exactly how much he has had. Plus I can sit more comfortably when feeding him with a bottle, as the problem I have found with feeding with massive boobs is that you have one hand supporting LO and the other making sure your boob isnt suffocating him.
Has anyone heard of people expressing milk and giving all feeds via a bottle?
(my LO is quite happy to take from boob or bottle and doesnt seem to be confused at all so this isnt an issue)
All advice welcome! Thanks.

[YummyMummy34]

I expressed all my feeds for DS from him being a week old - I just couldn't get the hang of BF. I was about to give up and use formula but got a pump and bingo!! It was a bit of a faff expressing, sterilizing bottles etc but once you get into a routine it was quite easy. I was expressing loads of milk as well (got the nickname Daisy the cow - nice!). At least this way baby is getting the goodness of your milk and dad/grandparents etc can help with feeding. Good luck!

[Sterny]

I expressed and gave my ds all feeds from a bottle until he was 4 months old and we got the hang of breastfeeding.

I started along the expressing road because my ds was premature and had various complications and was hospitalized for a while.

I would say that although this method does have its advantages, it is MUCH easier to breastfeed directly. I think it is very easy to get hung up on how many mls your baby is taking when, as long as they are producing plenty of wet nappies, weight gain etc, you shouldn't worry too much.

Plus, I found the whole expressing, washing-up, sterilizing routine started to really get on my nerves after a while. It is also quite restrictive and hard to get out and about when you have to express all the time.

Good luck!

[bewilderbeast]

i expressed 90% of feeds from when ds was born until he was 10 weeks old, now i express and combine with ff.

like Sterny my ds was premature and in hospital, and had problems with breast feeding, also like sterny i found the whole expressing schedule really irritating and restrictive and effectively it takes more than twice the time for each feed because you probably need to express at around the same time.

There can be problems with milk supply when expressing long term, I've had this problem hence the ff but there are loads of other threads on that particular problem.

do what's best for you and what keeps you happy in the end that's the most important thing for you and lo, good luck

[Shivs1974]

I expressed exclusively for dd1 until she was 1. DD2 took to bfing much better and hasn't had any EBM yet. I find that bfing is much more convenient - ie can just whip em out & feed her - whereas feeding EBM meant that I had to plan ahead. However expressing did mean that someone else could do the feeding for you.
As bewilderbeast said, do what suits you. Good luck!

[Lizzzombie]

Thanks for all the advice. My HV was particularly unhelpful and basically told me NOT to do it at all. So, its good to hear positive opinions on it also.
Can I also ask, was there somekind of expressing schedule you followed? Or did you just make it up? As I woke in the middle of the night with hugely engorged boobs which I hadn't considered.

[NineUnlikelyTales]

Hi

I exclusively EBM feed my DS (5 months), because we couldn't breastfeed direct. I would MUCH prefer to BF direct, because expressing is a major hassle. Here are my pros/cons

Pros

1. Someone else can feed baby and give you a rest
   
2. If you can't BF it's better than FF
   
   Cons
   
3. Can be painful long term (those machines are rough on the nips!)
   
4. Massively time consuming - 2 hours expressing every day, plus feeding, sterilising etc
   
5. Increased risk of gastro-enteritis etc because of using stored milk/bottles etc
   
6. Missing out on the bonding part of BF
   
7. Potential supply problems long term
   
8. Your day is tied to the expressing machine as you can't just express when and where you want to go out
   
9. To keep a good supply and avoid engorgement I have to get up in the night to express - even if my DS is sleeping (that has to be the worst thing ever!)
   
10. More likely to get blocked ducts etc because expressing machines don't remove milk as effectively as BF
    
11. You have to try and work out what size bottle the baby will need for each feed - inevitably leading to wasted EBM
    
12. Baby has to wait for feeds to be prepared
    
13. The entire bottom drawer of your freezer gets filled up with EBM, so less room for ice cream
    
    As I say, I express so obviously it has worked out for me, but it's not something I would recommend to anyone unless they really couldn't BF. Does it really matter that you know how much EBM your LO gets? As long as he grows and is healthy, the actual amounts are neither here nor there. I used to write down how much my DS was having...now I don't bother as I can see that he is doing just fine.
    
    I know that large boobs can present a challenge, but loads of women have them and still BF. Would it be worth contacting the LLL or NCT to see if they could help with an easier position?
    
    Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
    
    Nine

[NineUnlikelyTales]

Just to add, in the early days of exclusively expressing you need to build up/maintain supply, so it is recommended that you do it 8 - 10 times a day for 20 minutes a time (both breasts), including at least once between 11am and 7am (ideally around 2 - 5am as that is when the hormones are highest).

5 months in, my schedule is roughly

9.30am
2.30pm
6.30pm
10.30pm
4.30am

HTH
Nine

[maewest]

Lizzzombie - I also have large breasts (J cup) and found it quite a struggle getting started with bf, particularly in the early days when I was very 'full'. I also worried about smothering my DS as he was so small and my boob looked enormous next to his head.

Would different positions help you at all? I found that the underarm hold was easier sometimes, rather than the cradle hold. I also sat very upright and used lots of cushions. DS is now 6.5 months old and we're still going strong with the bf. It helps that he is much better at positioning himself now, also that he only takes 10/15 mins for a feed. I still do support my breast sometimes, but have found ways to do it more comfortably, sometimes he just lies in my lap kind of underneath the boob and I have both hands free.

I would also echo that I while know it may be reassuring to see how much milk your baby gets by giving it by bottle, this is something that you will get more confident with as time goes on and your baby grows. I very rarely get DS weighed now as I can tell as his clothes get too small that he is growing, also I have to brace myself as I pick him up now, the little porker .

Good luck with it, and congrats on your new baby.

[Sterny]

Hello again,

Thought I should also mention that, if you decide to go down the exclusive pumping road, you may find that your supply drops naturally at some point (usually around the 6 week mark I was told). There is medication available which may be able to boost your supply again.

In terms of an expressing schedule I was told by the hospital to express every three hours around the clock. I eventually gave up the night session when ds started sleeping through and my supply dropped a lot.

How are you getting on?

[macneil]

Week 11 of expressing, I still have nowhere near enough to feed my baby - I manage somewhere between a third and a half of what she takes in the day. Also she seems to vomit breast milk much more readily than formula, despite the kitchen being virtually turned into a lab.

I know this is because I don't express in the middle of the night, but I just found that too hard. My husband's work schedule has been hell since we had the baby, and I had to feed and pump in a different room, and I was exhausted and lonely and... well, these are excuses, but I would have been a wreck.

So my pumping schedule now:

9am, 12pm, 3pm, 6pm, 9pm, midnight

if I skip a day I get slightly hysterical. I give her formula feeds last thing at night and her early morning wake, usually between 5-6am. The rest is between 50 and 100 percent EBM, depending on how much I can produce and how hungry she is. I'm loaning a hospital pump, and will have to give it back when I come back to England, so this scheme ends at 4.5 months, although I'd like to carry on. I think getting home on the plane, living through my jetlag and the baby's jetlag and then finding a pump would be likely to kill of my milk supply.

[Lizzzombie]

Hi, I guess you are right, I dont need to know exactly how much my LO is taking in, as long as he is putting on weight. But sometimes he gets so fretful it makes you doubt yourself and how much he has had.
I didnt consider all the negatives which 9unlikelytales listed. Gastrointiritus being very scary.
I am managing to cut down on the expressing a bit, I just love the feeling of being empty, compared to being full. It just makes my already massive boobs even bigger!
Maewest - I've tried the rugby ball hold, but couldnt get comfy with it. Will try again.
Its mainly for the evening feeds that I find it easier to give EBM as my own supply doesnt seem to placate him then. But if I give him milk expressed from the morning, in the evening, he settles much easier.
BTW - I missed an express time out yesterday as I was out, and became so engorged I got 9oz out of one boob! Thought it was going to explode. (this cant happen can it?!)
Thanks for all the advice so far, its been really helpful x

[maewest]

Glad things are going well Lizzzombie. You don't say how old your DS is, but I'm guessing he's still fairly new? It seems like forever at the time, but they do settle down. For me I think the first 3 months or so were just a blur of feeding and changing (plus a fair bit of sick too). Your milk supply will settle down as well. I remember crying on the phone to my mum as I had these enormous milk-filled melons giving me backache. The first time DS slept more than 3 hrs I woke up in a puddle of milk, had to wear breastpads all the time etc. But then it got much better, I don't leak at all, no breastpads etc.

Just remember, you're doing a great job, probably with very little sleep. Be kind to yourself and take care xx

[Catilla]

No real experience of this as I only expressed a bit... but have you tried feeding lying down.
Took me a while to get it sorted (with dh's help) as I couldn't arrange my arms quite right... but was thinking it might feel less "smothering" if baby is next to a big boob rather than under it.

Also didn't Mears post something recently from a bf training course she'd been on, saying the advice on positioning was being changed because women with larger breasts couldn't use the same position, the baby has to be more "underneath" the breast rather than "tummy to mummy"?

HTH

[Catilla]

Sorry, meant to say once I sussed the lying down - I did it a lot. Night feeds in particular became less of an issue as I didn't have to decamp to the living room for 2 hours at a time, just stayed in bed & dozed.

[lulu25]

Feeding lying down is the best (my boobs are currently H cup) - DS can adjust his head easily and swallows less air. Only downside is that I can't do it outside the house.

I don't like expressing much so far - it seems to need both hands, it's time consuming, it's sticky and the bottle is making the boy really windy. What am I doing wrong?

[kittypants]

i expressed for 5/6 weeks.my ds had feeding problems in hospital and was tube feed then they gave him bottle,so i had to buy steriliser.after a week i still had loads of milk coming so decided to try again,not interested in my boob so i expressed.unfortunatly i had silly hv who convinced me i was making life hard for myself and not to bother just use formula.wish i hadnt listened!but then wish id not had to express either!

[Lizzzombie]

my LO is only 4 and a half weeks, feeding every three hours like clockwork, although occassionally goes a bit longer at night time. I woke up this morning with engorged melons (HH-J cup) and had leaked everywhere as my DP ad done a 10.30pm feed last night and I'd gone to bed early, so boobs had had ages to both fill up.
I know its good for my LO and the healthy option etc but I just dont enjoy it. I keep telling myself, one month down, 5 more to go, and in a couple of weeks I may introduce a formula feed. But BF just makes me so tierd, and plus onbviously not sleeping more than 2 hours ish in a row also adds to this!

[forgottenfreetime]

Lizzie, It is terribly hard. I have big boobs too J cup whilst feeding and had lots of attachment probs at first with ds who was tiny (5lb3oz) and jaundiced - which makes them too sleepy to feed. In my experience, very few HV or midwives know anything other than the bare basics abut bf and you should always seek the advice of a bf counsellor if there are probs or you want advice re positioning. I felt like a right pita at first having to phone people to ask but it was so worth it in the end.
I too leaked like niagra falls overnight if ds slept well. Just put a towel under the sheet and let the beds sheets look terrible for a few months (changinig them at normal intervals obviously!) Keep a stack of clean t shirts by the bed to change into at night if you wake up soaked and cold. I would agree with Nine UT re all the downsides of ft expressing - much less likely that you wil keep that up long term than if you persist with bf a bit longer and give your body time to setle down. I think about 10 weeks in it all got so much easier and less engorgement and leaking etc. Plus bigger baby was much more able to get good latch without exposing my whole breast to the world and his wife IYSWIM. I fed for 16 mths in the end and after the first 4 was so pleased that I had persisted - it really was the easiest and most convenient thing in the world (selfish me). However, I know only too well the emotional downsides at the begininng and would agree with others it is your decision because no one else can know how you are feeling about it.

[throckenholt]

I did for my twins - they were prem and were just not big enough to feed for themselves. By the time they were big enough they were stubborn little blighters.

I have to say (after breastfeeding DS1) I found expressing second best (all the extra hassle with sterilising etc) - but if it suits you then go for it.

[NineUnlikelyTales]

Lizzombie

You are very sensible to take it one month (or day!) at a time. That's all any of us can do. It's hard, this sleep depravation lark though, isn't it?

[kiskidee]

there is a book called 'exclusively pumping' by casemore which is only about 100 pgs long. all you need to know about expressing - emotionally and physiologically. it will set you back £15 though.

[CMJ]

I am currently exclusively expressing for my 6 week old - bf-ing didnt pan out and I expressed successfully for 4 months for dd1.

I pump 5 times a day which prodices enough milk thankfully although I have the cartons of formula just in case.

My expressing schedule is....when I get up 7-8am approx, lunchtime, late afternoon, 8pm then 11pm. I do find it a hassle with all the washing and sterilising but have quite a good system in place and just get on with it. Luckily I produce sufficient so its not fruitless.

I cant venture out too far from the house (had to turn down a day-trip to a country farm place at mid-term week) as if I miss an express session my boobs really get taut and sore. I plan to do this for 4 months again and see how I feel by then.

[Peddy]

CMJ - I haven't read this whole thread but I'd ask whether you have decided not to BF at all as a result of your experience. I had trouble breastfeeding at the start, and was lucky enough to get in touch with an awesome breastfeeding counsellor - a local stay-at-home mum who volunteers through the NCT. All I can say is that she was amazing. She came round and spent an afternoon observing us and gave so much gentle support and information, and helped me feed on a breast which had hit 15 on a 0 to 10 pain scale (this from a woman who gave birth with no pain relief!). NCT BFing counsellors are apparently all highly trained and know far more about BFing than any doctor I know. As a result I've been BFing happily for 3 months. I know some NCT areas can be a bit militant over BFing, but if you haven't tried contacting them already it might be worth a shot as it depends on who you get to speak to.

Also I have fairly big tits as well, and found that the 'rugby tackle' position (!) worked a treat. Hope this description makes sense: Use a feeding cushion if you have one, then lay your baby with his/ her head under your breast, looking up at you. The side of their body should be crossing the side of your body, with legs pointing towards the back of the chair. You'll need to support their whole body underneath with cushions. This is an ideal position for big-breasted women as the baby can access your breast more easily than in other positions. If you have an Avent breast pump you'll find a description of this position, with pictures, in the accompanying leaflet on breastfeeding. If you don't have one maybe a friend might? You might find that you need guidance from an BFing counsellor to help coax your baby onto the breast but if you can I'd recommend it as it's so much easier than managing bottles.

Good luck!

xx

[mears]

Haven't had time to read all responses but what I would say is that directly breastfeeding is superior to bottle feeding EBM because it cuts down on hassle of expressing and baby gets what he wants. Although you can see what he is getting - that does not equate with what he wants. Breastfeeeding can be fatser than expressing. You might express 9 oz but he might get 12 when feeding directly IYSWIM?

At the end of the day you do what suits you both however don't assume too soon that expressing is the easier option. Breastfeeding directly stimulates milk production more efficiently than expressing.

He should tell you when he has had enough by spitting the nipple out. It really is more about confidence in your body's ability. You can learn how to ensure he is feeding properly. You shouldn't need to hold your breast away from his face if he is attached properly. It might be you are using a pillow to support him when you don't need to. It is all to do with the 'angle of the dangle'. If you have large breasts he will be fine on your knee. The rugby ball hold is probably best till he gets older/ All breastfed babies (and babies in general) are fractious in the evening. I would keep the EBM for then You have not hit the 'lovely' phase of breastfeeding yet when your baby really interacts with you. Just stick with it and you will see the pleasurable part evolve. As your baby gets bigger it gets easier - big boobs or not

[Lizzzombie]

thanks for all advice, I have cut down on expressing now, and just do one bottle in the evening. boobs constantly feel full though. and left nipple is killing me, I must have him positioned wrongly when he is feeing from that boob, but I cant work out what is different.
I tried calling all the breastfeeding numbers I was given for advice, all of them were busy. I guess it depends on luck of the draw for that one.
I am nearly 6 weeks in now, and like I said before just taking it one day at a time, but I really am not enjoying this BF experience. Mears - when does the 'lovely' stage kick in?

BTW - Bravissimo have just brought out a lovely new pretty feeding bra. Only goes up to an H cup, but is bigger than other H cups. Heartily recommend it. (am bribing myself with it to keep BF!) x