Where in the country is there a lack of support for breastfeeding ?

[smallvoice]

Can I just ask where those who say there is no support for breastfeeding live ?

From the moment I walked into my dr's surgery bottle feeding was never mentioned as an option. When it really mattered (ie not when I was watching eastenders or playing with my dolls-see threads surrounding the Milupa debate), there was an overwhelming amount of information available about breastfeeding. I never asked about bottlefeeding but a friend of mine in a different area who has very valid psychological reasons for actively deciding to bottlefeed was told by her antenatal midwife that she was not allowed to provide any information or give any advice re bottle feeding.

As it happened after the birth I was severely anaemic, with no energy or physical resources to draw on, and had a baby with a tongue tie who found it difficult to get milk from me and therefore did not stimulate my low production. Breastfeeding was incredibly difficult. I made the decision to bottlefeed with no support or information. I found this lack of support on such an emotional issue very difficult. In the breastfeeding debate it is often said that every woman is free to make her own decision as long as its informed. In fact as its almost impossible to make an informed decision as, at a time when women aren't free to do lots of their own research, there is a distinct lack of any information...When I asked questions not one professional could give me any actual figures or refer me to any material about the options I was trying to weigh up - they could only repeat the generalisations re breastfeeding which I could see on any poster. I assume these are based on studies and statistical facts but I wasn't able to assess any of the risks.

If I had been absolutely determined to breastfeed I could have turned to midwives, the health vistors, workshops, drop in clinics, helplines, books, mumsnet, plus any of the women I met in my antenatel/post natal groups who, with one exception, are all breastfeeding.

Instead whenever I walked into the drs surgery, had a conversation with a health visitor, logged onto mumsnet or even picked up the box of formula I was reminded that breast is best. I don't have a problem with any of this and I plan on trying again next time but do wonder where those who complain that there is no support for breastfeeding live and does anyone agree that in this debate some of the statistical back should be more readily available through health professionals?

PS 3 months on I'm very confident about my decision and its just one of many I will make as a parent...sometimes I'll fall on the right side of the statistical probabilities and sometimes not.

[IlanaK]

Lucky you smallvoice to have such good support locally. There is none where i live. It is so bad that I decided to train as a counsellor and set up my own support group which the HV refuse to acknowledge. As for midwives and HV locally, I despair at what they tell mums. The hospital locally that I had my ds2 was appalling too - thankfully I already knew what I was doing. I am in central london by the way. There are no NCT groups here either.

[astonished]

So what exactly was it with bottle feeding that you needed support with, and did you post here to ask?

[Chandra]

It depends what do you mean by support, I believe where I live is the same, everybody talks about having an informed decision but no information is porvided about formula, even if you ask for it.

You are expected to breastfeed, you try to do it, but when things go wrong the only support you get is somebody telling you that you should try, and try, and try, and try but don't tell you how to do it. I have a friend whose baby got severely dehidrated after failing to latch druing the first week, she went back to the hospital for a week begging the doctors/nurses to do something about it only to be told that she should continue trying by pressing the baby against her breast, could some nurse, doctor, or cleaning lady in a children's ward have noticed that the only thing she needed to do was to express a bit of milk/pull the nipple slightly so it looked more like a nipple rather than a brown sticker pasted onto a ballon? No. So yes they support BF but I'm a bit concerned about their ways and not really surprised then that so many mothers leave it once they encounter problems, specially when you have a bay wired to a monitor who is getting very weak out of hunger.

[Blu]

Smallvoice - judging from what you and others say, there is definitely a lack of support for people who were in situations like you own.

But to answer you q - I experienced a severe lack of actual practical support for breastfeeding. I was surrounded by posters and policies, but finding myself in the post-natal ward in the middle of the night with a constantly crying sleepless baby who appeared to latch on for no more than 5 seconds and then stop, crying, I found I was totally on my own. Obstacles included:
a bed that wouldn't work, so I couldn't sit up and lean on it
Begging the mw's to come and help me latch him on - I asked all day, for over 12 hours - finally one rushed in when she was putting on her coat to go home , shoved him roughly to my breast and said 'there you are'
A paediatrician who insisted (rudely) I bottlefeed as DS had slight jaundice. (I kept him near the sunny wondow and continued trying my best to get as much milk into him, he was fine)
Endless people who belittled my determination to feed him - mainly older generation interfering so-and-sos, but some contemporaries, who seemed to think I was a yogurt knitting phenomenum.

I'm NOT saying that there isn't suport for people who pro-actively choose, or have no choice but to bottlefeed, but to answer your q - the hospital where ds was born.

[Chandra]

bay = baby

[beansprout]

Not great here in NW London. HV not v useful so called NCT and Laleche and was told I they didn't have anyone I could see and talk to.

But I'm not sure if that is what you are asking?

[beansprout]

Oh yes, and in the hospital their answer was to take him away and try to give him formula (but my boy wouldn't take it).

[Tommy]

when I had DS1, 2 HVs tols me to give a bottle of formula because he wasn't putting on enough weight. I did phone the NCT help line but unfortunately was not told anything I hadn't read myself. I didn't see the Breast Feeding Counsellor at the maternity hospital until DS1 was 5 weeks old.
The midwives were keen and supportive but they left after 2 weeks - it wasn't really until after this stage that there seemed to be a problem. IME, the midwives were very pro breastfeeding but the HVs (or certainly the ones that I encountered) were not as supportive or knowledgable as I would have liked or expected.
Personally I think that all HVs should be trained as breast feeding counsellors.

Should say that by the time DS2 came along, I was more assertive (and he was easier to feed TBH) and I juts got on with it

[milkymouth]

UNICEF have long stated that breastfeeding 'support' has to be much more than posters and slogans. These really aren't much good to you when you're vulnerable and frightened. It has to be an opportunity to see someone,to be able to know where to go and how to access help. These are really difficult things to do at a vulnerable time.

A m/w told me that with bottle fed babies,they aren't allowed to discharge mothers from the caseload unless they have actually shown them how to make up a bottle of formula.
Suppose it's not the case if switching later though.

I think all formulas are pretty much the same aren't they? Legislation covering their content is so strict that they have to be.

[smallvoice]

Sorry just to clarify my questions for astonished.

The support I wanted was for someone to have an intelligent discussion with me about the decision I was making. When the leaflet says fewer ear infections or less risk of allergies..what are the statistics I'm weighing up. I was in a real state and dont feel I was making an informed choice at all.

the questions were - where is there less support ? my antenatal group were talkling yesterday and we had used several different resources between us. So there must be great variations regionally which would explain some of the heated threads.

Also does anyone else think that the statistics should be more readily available through health professionals ? I stress health professionals as I'm not arguing for a reduction in support for breastfeeding (I might need it again next time) but an acceptance in the hospitals/health clinics that sometimes it doesn't work and that keeping info from these women doesnt help..

make sense ??

A

[Blu]

I agree with you, Smallvoice.

[Twiglett]

Must say I support smallvoice in this perception

But I think that is totally coloured by the fact that I was lucky enough to have had no problems breastfeeding either of mine (born in different london boroughs). I dare say had my personal experience been different my opinion might be different.

[caligula]

I think it depends on what you mean by support.

All hospitals, GP surgeries, HV's etc., will claim to support bfing.

But helping you do it, is something most of them don't know that they don't know how to do.

I had similar experiences to Blu in both the hospitals I stayed in (South East London and Kent) and I was more lucky than I knew at the time with my HV in London, because she was a registered bf counsellor as well as a HV, so she understood how to support me to bf and about weight charts being based on bottle-fed babies, so I never got any hassle. In Kent, there was just no support. The HV was nice but clueless and the support group was 2 bus rides away every fortnight.

But all claimed to be supportive. Only my 1st hv could be in reality though, because she was in walking distance and trained.

[Twiglett]

By the time I moved on to bottles with DS though (at 4 months) it was my post-natal group of mums who lead me in that direction with an 'of course you need to move on to formula if you're returning to work in 6 months'

I felt it was the right decision at the time, I never once contemplated continuing to breastfeed in fact I think I had a problem with 'extended breastfeeding' The fact I had positive persuasion from my peer group merely meant I didn't take umbrage at someone having a different opinion.

But I had DD when I wasn't working and breastfed for far longer and I needed support from here to get over my perception that over 6 months was just plain weird

[milkymouth]

I can't accept that formula 'knowhow' is denied to people.Breastfeeding is as the book suggests, a womanly art,and a very difficult one to master at times.I the developed world,we seem to need so much help to rediscover this.

I don't see that making up formula is hard to master,although as I've never done,I may be wrong?

But,the point is that impartial advice on bottlefeeding is hard to find ,yes,because the money making companies have fallen over themselves to trick us into believing that they will provide it. They're not on our side,never have been and never will be.

[Chandra]

I think you have a good point there, no information is disclosed and I believe that such info is far from being widely available to the average GP or HV. And yes, formulas are not the same, no matter how many times GP/HV tell you that they are.

[astonished]

I think personally the stats should be available as they wil benefit all mums in making decisions, I'm sure they can be found though if we need them and are regularly posted on here. I guess the question is whether there is a need for health professionals to provide this info, i don't think a leaflet etc is too much to ask for, however surely it will be seen as another way of pushing breastfeeding as the stats are in favour of breastfeeding.

I have read a few times on here over the last few days about the lack of informational support for bottle feeders, but i found when bottlefeeding all the info i needed was available, in Bounty publications, pregnancy books etc. It seems what most are getting at is the health visitors inability to point mums in the directions of certain milks, give more info about the types of milk etc. Surely this would be a minefield even if formula advertsisng WAS allowed, HV's clearly couldn't be seen to endorse products, in the same way they can't tell us what nappies to buy even though they might think one is much better for nappy rash!

i was lucky when giving up breastfeeding due to PND my health visitor was incredibly supportive with my switch to bottle particularly witht he trouble i had getting my babe to take a bottle. So I can honestly say here that i had great support with both methods of feeding, but i had a great HV, and lets face it thats a lottery.

[CalicoPie]

In my area (near Leeds) I think I was in a minority in breastfeeding. At my ante-natal class it was encouraged and discussed at length, but at the post natal meet up (babies would have been about 2 months old) there were only 3 of us out of 12 still breastfeeding, which I was a bit surprised at. Every time I went to the baby clinic the HV seemed pleased and surprised that I was still BF.

I knew I was in a low rate bf area, as our nearest NCT branch is quite a long way away!


I have a friend in a different part of the country who struggled with BF and moved over to formula quite early on. She was distraught as she was in a very pro (NCT represented!) area and she felt a huge sense of failure that she couldn't breastfeed. I think the pressure on here was enormous, and probably didn't help the situation.

Anyway, I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from all this, but yes I think geographical location can make a BIG difference.

x

[Chandra]

That's another good point, new mums networks like post natal groups starts normallafter the babies are 4-8 weeks and many thing can go pear shaped with breastfeeding before you can have access to the knowledge of other mothers which would make a huge difference if your HV is not much help.

[smallvoice]

Oh no..didn't mean to suggest I needed help with actual bottle feeding!! It really was the statistical stuff and for someone to accept that this was important to me rather than just to be dismissed as asking irritating questions.

I suppose the problem was that I hadn't contemplated bottle feeding whilst pregnant. So when I found myself trying to decide what to do in a highly emotional state I had no idea what the ins and outs of the debate were and was disappointed with the way my questions were met.

[milkymouth]

Well......all the evidence points to breastfeeding being better in every way than bottlefeeding. (Although some would argue that struggling to breastfeed is 'worse' than bottlefeeding easily.)

Yet,if (and indeed when) such information is presented,many people would describe it as 'pushing breastfeeding.'

This is a fact that some people find really hard to digest. There has been a lot of pressure on health professionals to play this down for fear of making bottlefeeders feel 'guilty'

[Aragon]

"Personally I think that all HVs should be trained as breast feeding counsellors"


Hear hear, tommy. Don't know why they aren't, it's a major public health issue.

[Hulababy]

In Sheffield I was provided with NO information about bottle feeding at any point either during my pregnancy or after Dd was born. Everything was geared towards breast feeding, and even when someone asked about formula in the antenatal class no information was given or provided.

When I had problems feeding after birth I was continual pushed to keep going with breast feeding. However no real advice or support was privded in how I could overcome those problems. I didn't know about MN or similar then, and didn't know who I could ask as that information was not forth coming. (Luckily I know more about such outlets for next time).

However when I did decide, after 6 weeks, to change to formula I was made, by the HV, to feel like a bad person for doing so. This was NOT in my imagination - it wasa very real and abviously displayed disapproval. When I asked about formula feeding and use of bottles I was given no help or support at all.


I think there is a very real need for impartial advice about all forms of feeding babies at all stages of pregnancy and after the birth. Not disapproval or disgust in either camp, just helpful, supportive people who don't judge but listen to what the mum wants and needs for her circumstances.