My DD keeps telling fibs...

[pie]

My DD turned 4 in March, and for the past month or so has just been telling lie after lie. Some are pretty harmless and funny, some are not.

Here are 2 that I think are dangerous.

1. She stays with her my mum 1 night a week. The next day I ask her if she had a nice time and did she see Auntie B and Uncle W? She tells me that Auntie B was crying she wanted some chocolate. I asked what happened, DD says she told Auntie B she couldn't have any. Then what, I ask. Auntie B apparently cries more. And then DD tells me that my brother (uncle W) comes into the room, hits my sister and touches her fanny (these are the exact word she uses). I call my mum of course! My brother wasn't even in the house, and its my DD doing the hitting, and of course there has been no fanny touching.
   
   So I say nothng to DD.
   
   This morning..
   
   
2. DD is crying because she wants me to take her to school, wheelchair hasn't been delivered so this isn't going to happen, DH is getting ready to go. So DD runs into the bedroom tells me that DH pushed her on the bed, shows me that her legs are spread wide and that DH touched her fanny and now she doesn't want to go to school.
   
   This time I tell her that is enough, I tell her that she can't tell lies like that, especially involving touching. It isn't nice to the person she is telling lies about. So she cries and tells me she will stop.
   
   What should I do, I know that she is not being touched inappropriately, someone is always there when these things are supposed to happen.
   
   Is she just acting out because of my increasing inability to do anything, walk and stuff?

[pie]

DH is worried he'll go to jail if she starts saying this stuff to the teacher, what should we do?

[addle]

pie, how awful for you.

do you know how she has got the idea she is being touched inappropriately? and sorry, I don't know about your increasing inability to do anything - is it a recent sudden change? and how is she apart from the telling fibs?

[princesspeahead]

can I ask - how does she know about "touching her fanny" and that it is inappropriate etc? 4 is very young to have come up with that concept by herself, isn't it? Is it something you have talked about with her? I find it a bit disturbing I must say.

[tamum]

I have to say, my overwhelming feeling would be that she has seen, if not experienced, something that has disturbed her and she is trying to make sense of. The prevailing view that accusations made by young children should all be taken seriously is based on the idea that children that age simply don't have the knowledge to come up with stories like that. I completely accept what you say about her never being alone with anyone, but I feel she must have been exposed to something, at some level, that is really bothering her.

[fio2]

I think at this age they do start to have a fascination with private parts. My friends dd is four and she talks about willys constantly-much to my friends disapointment. I think you have done the right thing telling her its inappropriate. It may well be that she is attention seeking but I doubt it, it just looks like a stage shes going through.

[fio2]

tamum dont you think she may have seen it on tv or heard other kids talking like this at school?

[tamum]

I very deliberately said "exposed to", fio. She is presumably not at school; you may well be right about having seen it on TV. Either way, it sounds as though she has been bothered about it and is trying to make sense of things.

[fio2]

sorry tamum english has never been my strong point, I think she seems bothered by it too.

[pie]

She is full time at nursery, and I have heard other little boys talking about pulling their willies and there is a family friend the same age that talks about touching his willy all the time. So I think to a great extent she is simply curious. She thinks fannies are hilarious and laughs her head off if she walks in when I'm on the loo. She is also always asking why boys and girls have different bits.

She doesn't see touching her fanny infront of me as inappropriate, and I, DH, grandma etc have often told her that its something you don't do infront of other people, that it is a private thing. I have also said to her that no one is allowed to touch her there unless they are married (old fashioned, but I wan't to get the point accross). She seems to nod, say ok then forgets about it, then a couple of days later starts pointing at herself again asking me why she has a fanny etc.

After I told her about not letting anyone touch her there she fell over at school and complained her fanny hurt. The teacher offered to look, but DD said no, that it was private. The teacher told my mum all this when DD was picked up, so I think that message has got through and that is why I'm 100% sure that she is not accusing anyone or saying that this has happened to her.

But she thinks its ok to tell lies, the ones I mentioned being the most extreme. She is always telling everyone that someone (and I mean ANYONE) has hit her, when they clearly haven't.

This has all started happening since the SPD got worse and now I can't walk and she is having to deal with the new baby arriving soon.

I think that it is an attention thing, but I'm getting worried that she will put my brother or DH in jail for stuff that she really is just making up.

[aloha]

I really don't know what is going on, but she certainly seems upset about something. I wouldn't be at all surprised if your illness is upsetting her. Of course you can't do anything except reassure her loads about that, but maybe you could sit down and really try to chat to her about what's bothering her. I think this does need a bit of investigating, as it is so specific. She must have seen or heard something that frightened/worried her.

[pie]

The only think I can think of is that about 4 months ago she did walk in while DH and I were trying to grab a quickie, and she does sit next to me when I'm reading birth books as she wants to see how the babies come out.

About a week ago, before the second tale she told me that some she had fallen off a slide and hit her head and she wanted a cuddle. DH told me when they went to the park there were no slides. So I asked her why she was making up things. She said 'Oh mummy, its just a story silly'.

I just really don't know why she thinks she has to make stuff up to get attention as she honestly gets lots, and more positive attention then negative.

DH is gutted and upset over what she said this morning and my mum has offered to have her tonight, this is how upsetting the whole thing is becoming.

[pie]

I meant to add that apart from telling fibs she has become REALLY clingy with me. She has always been a really outgoing social girl, but lately its 'mummy, mummy, mummy'.

Can I just give another example of a lie she told, just so that I can make it clear that I don't think that this is a question of sexual inappropriateness, more living in a fantasy world.

About 3 weeks ago DH had a massive row, that seemed like it was going to go on. I called my mum to ask if she could have her for a couple of hours as DH and I didn't want DD seeing us fight. When my mum turned up DD ran up to her and told her that my DH was shouting at me and hitting ME!!!

If DH ever layed a finger on me (or DD) we would be heading straight for that divorce court. DH actually started crying infront of my mum as he just couldn't believe what DD was saying. He is getting really hurt by her behaviour.

[fio2]

my sister had cystic fibrosis and this affected me when I was young. I always had a very vivid imagination, illness is very hard for a young child to cope with.

[marialuisa]

Pie, it really does sound as if she's confused about the new baby. Does she know that your DH isn't her natural father? Could she be trying to test him? Children can be much more aware of things than we realise. Have you tried explaining to her that some stories are nice but that you get worried/upset when she tells you "stories" where she or someone else has been hurt? Can you explain about "crying wolf"? Sorry, suspect this is not much help, but do feel that concerns about the new baby and her place in the family could be at the bottom of this.

[WideWebWitch]

pie, re the clinginess, do you think she's associating your pregnancy with your decreased health (which it is of course with the SPD) and is worried you're going to die or something? It must be very upsetting for you all. Sorry, I don't have any other suggestions other than talking to her and asking her why she's saying these things. I hope someone else has some good advice.

[pie]

maria, I hadn't thought about the whole natural father thing actually. She really wants this baby, and I had thought that my illness was upsetting her. And now that you've brought it up, I mentioned her natural father to her the other day and she didn't want to talk about it, just changed the subject. I had thought its because he hasn't contacted her at all for 11 months, but maybe she is thinking like you said.

Is 4 an age where she could understand that this baby and her would have different biological fathers?

[marialuisa]

Definitely. My mum went through a similar thing with my brother, she had my sister when he was nearly 5. He started saying that step-dad was hitting him, saying nasty things etc..His own dad doesn't bother and he had overheard step-dad saying to someone how excited he was about having a little girl (mum knew from amnio). He thought that this would mean he wouldn't be so important to mum and step-dad any more.

[marialuisa]

Just to say, your illness may also play its part, children can tie themselves up in knots as easily as adults. TBH it sounds as if she's probably got quite a lot going on in her head at the moment and isn't too sure how to deal with it and what she needs to worry about etc..

[tamum]

Maybe that's it pie, she was perhaps a bit bothered by walking in on you and dh, and now she's worried about all sorts of things like you being ill and her position relative to the new baby, and this is just the way it's manifesting itself. You sound as though you're handling it all very sensibly, but I can really see why it's worrying you, you really don't want her saying stuff like that in front of strangers, and I can see why your dh is upset.

Sorry if I snapped, fio, I didn't mean to

[fio2]

you didnt snap sweetie
I am having a really bad period and I just keep upseting everyone