could I have some advice and wise words, please, about how to handle a tricky discipline/sibling issue?

[harpsichordcarrier]

dd2 is two and a bit and pushing the boundaries
nothing major, just a bit of pushing, shoving, spitting out food, and general wilful disobedience.
now I am dealing with that in all the usual ways (firm words, firm talking to, ignoring, sitting at the bottom of the stairs for a quite chat etc etc)
the problem is that her four year old sister gets very upset whenever I try and discipline her. they are very close and she just finds it unbearable.

she keeps intervening and wanting to cuddle her to comfort her, saying things like "A is sorry mummy, don't shout at her" and "mummy I won't ever shout at anyone ever" and "mummy it isn't nice to ignore A if you love her" and "I love A even when is naughty and it didn't hurt me and I don't want you to be cross with her"

very often the incidents are directed against dd1, which makes things even more difficult.

can I have some words of wisdom please, about how to handle it because it is making our lives a bit gloomy at the moment

[frazzledbutcalm]

I can only assume if you stick to what you're doing, maybe explain to dd2 that dd1 is being naughty/not nice then she may understand a bit (you prob do this anyway). Make a big fuss of dd2 when she's being good,in front of dd1 so she can see that you also still love dd2

[hecate]

what about

Do you love your sister? How would you feel if nobody liked her and she had no friends? Well, people who have a mum and dad who never taught them right and wrong don't have any friends because they are very naughty and nobody likes them. Do you want nobody to like your sister? Can you imagine how it would feel if nobody liked you? You can help us to make sure your sister behaves well, etc etc

??

or send her out of the room when you are disciplining dd2 and say "Go and wait in (wherever.) This is mummy's job and it is not nice to interrupt.

[harpsichordcarrier]

thanks
yes, I do try to take her into the hall to have a little privacy but not always possible e.g. when we are at the dinner table

I do explain to dd1 why I am doing what I am doing but lord does she get upset

[funnypeculiar]

Your dd1 sounds lovely, harpsi
Could you explain to her that dd2 needs to learn how to behave with other people? And that you still love her, but you need to help her to understand that people can be hurt/upset by her actions?
DS is very keen on the idea that dd is still learning stuff that he understands

[frazzledbutcalm]

Kids are strange/funny aren't they. ds1 was 6 when dd1 came along. dd was a very demanding baby/toddler/big girl! When ds was 10 ish and dd 4 ish he found her very annoying, yet one day they were playing outside (separately) and a boy (quite a bit older than dd pushed her and ds immediately sprang to her defence and pushed and shouted at the boy!
your dd1 obviously sees it as her job to defend/protect dd2, i just don't know why they seem to take on this role!

[harpsichordcarrier]

yes, she is very sweet and empathetic and loves her sister madly.
today they both chose an ice cream and dd2 decided she wanted her sister's after all.
she kicked up a massive fuss and dd1 wanted to buy one with her pocket money. when I wouldn't let her, she swapped with her anyway
I hadn't the heart to stop her but that isn't good for dd2 is it?

[rachaelsara]

I think your dd1 sounds lovely. My dd's are more likely to question whether I've been harsh enough, and indeed join in with the punishment!

[rachaelsara]

That's so sweet!

[funnypeculiar]

I don't think I'd have had a problem with the ice cream -dd2 wants to swop, dd1 is happy to do so. Sorted I think there's more of an issue where dd2s actions can/do effect others. Radically, have you talked to dd1 about this? Explained that sometimes you have to help dd2 understand how to behave in a way that doesn't hurt/upset other people. Discuss how you can do this with her - eg ds - also 4 not sweet or especially kind to his sister, 2 doesn't like me shouting (neither do I ) but is very keen OK with me putting her on the naughty step.

[harpsichordcarrier]

yes, I have explained it to her (though not every time), but I think she is finding it hard to absorb, because mostly the behaviour is directed at her and she "doesn't mind"
I think I need to keep explaining it, consistently.
it is also to do with:
dd1 just having started school and missing her sister
and
having a bit of probem with authority, including my authority

[Countingthegreyhairs]

Um, you may have already done this, but as I'm currently in the throes of trying to put 'How to talk so kids listen' in to practice (with mixed results it has to be said) could you try taking dd1 (who sounds lovely btw) aside and say something like:

"Oh dear, Mummy doesn't know what to do. Do you think you could advise me pls? If you had a little girl who was being naughty and pushing and shoving and spitting things out at the table, what would you do?"

And then go through her solutions seriously and come to an agreement about how you are both going to tackle the problem together ...

Perhaps???

[harpsichordcarrier]

oh yes I like that idea.
I used that book with dd1, I think it is very sensible in lots of ways though needs more energy than I have

[Countingthegreyhairs]

Indeed. Horrible meltdown the other day before school when one of dd's shoe fastenings broke in two.

According to bk, should have launched in to "Oh I wish I could ask some fairies to come and mend your shoe right now" but was too knackered/too rushed/too exasperated so she had to contend with "boots on, out door NOW"!!!

[Countingthegreyhairs]

bumping for Harpsichordcarrier ...

[frazzledbutcalm]

Counting, what great idea! I'll remember that one

[harpsichordcarrier]

thanks Counting

[Flibbertyjibbet]

Your dd1 sounds gorgeous. My Ds1 (3.1yo) shoves his brother (21m) in the naughty corner shouting '2 minutes! 2minutes' for absolutely the SLIGHTEST imagined misdemeanour!
(Usually because DS2 has the toy that DS1 wants to play with and he's realised its a good ruse to get his hands on it!)