Should I be worried? (Sorry, very long post .... )

[Ghosty]

Hi there ...
Need a bit of advice as I am not sure whether to be worried about my DS or not ...
DH and I have been working on DS' inability to accept games as just games ... for example, when he plays soccer on a Saturday morning (cute little five aside teams) he invariably throws a tantrum when he doesn't get a chance to score a goal ... none of the other children do this. It took a couple of weeks for him to want to take part at all (he said he was too shy) but now he loves playing but like I say, has these tantrums.
Another example: We had a friend round to play yesterday and he and DS started playing snakes and ladders. DS was determined to win and just could not accept it when his friend landed on a ladder or he landed on a snake. In the end he started cheating and turning the dice over so that he could get the right number to get to a ladder. When I told him he couldn't play like that he just lost it and we had the biggest wobbly EVER! I was quite embarrassed about it and the other little boy looked at DS like he had crawled from under a rock - needless to say we had to abandon the game and I sent them out into the garden to play football and that turned to custard too with DS screaming and shouting at his friend and then not letting his friend have the ball.
I went to speak to his kindergarten teacher today on another issue (DS came home with a big bruise on his shoulder that he said he got from another boy who hit him with a stick) and have come back wondering whether DS has a problem ...
She said that DS has a problem understanding 'pretend' and when the children play games outside (there is a little group of boys who play 'tag' and 'pokemon' together) DS invariably gets over excited, oversteps the boundaries and ends up either hitting or being hit. She says that when the games turn out like that they 'redirect' the boys to do other things but she said that DS is always in the middle of it.
Probably not relevant, but I am clutching at straws, I pointed out to her that DS has never watched Pokemon so probably doesn't understand the game ....
Anyway ... I am a bit upset about it to be honest ... he used to be such a sensitive and caring little boy ... when he first started Kindy he used to sit quietly with a book and a puzzle and now he runs around like a screaming banshee ...
At home his behaviour is on and off ... He attention seeks all the time even if he is having attention ... He winds his Dad up so much at the end of the day ... we are having night time troubles, he is scared of the dark and he just doesn't sleep enough which makes him very very tired and grumpy at the end of the day ....
I know there are loads of threads about the &%$&^% Fours ... I have posted on them before about DS ... and I know that the birth of his baby sister sent him into orbit a bit but I am beginning to wonder if we have something more worrying on our hands ...
Thanks for getting this far ...
Can anyone help?
Love
G xxx

[clary]

Ghosty it sounds to me as if he is upset/worried about something. I say this because if he used to be sweet as you say and has turned into someone who needs all this attention and has to win, I wonder if it's some outside influence. If so this is a good thing as it's solvable. How old is your baby? It might be that he feels dethroned and wants to get any attention going, even eg disrupting games etc. Also if he's sleeping badly he will be winding everyone up at the end of the day...my 3 are good sleepers but even they can get grizzly and grotty come 6-6.30. I do think we expect such a lot of our big 4yos esp if there is a small baby and they seem so big. Could you try a whole programme of special attention to him, eg special time with you and no baby, special treats if he is "good" (eg plays a game nicely, behaves well at nursery etc), lots of praise for his work at nursery (I mean paintings etc), special story time at night etc. You may have tried these things. But FWIW I don't think it sounds like anything worrying - if he was that nice boy he will be him again!

[suedonim]

I can't answer everything, Ghosty, but you could be talking about my ds1 in your first two paras. He was never able to lose gracefully and we had tantrums, tears and the "Snot fair" yelling and shouting. He's now 29yo and we always joke that he was always in bed by five o'clock on the day of his birthday party, because he would have a melt-down if anyone else won a prize.

He's never become a good loser and is also quite competitive. I don't know if it's truly possible to change someone's basic character in that way, it seems such an inbuilt thing with him. But he did learn to accept that other people can and do win sometimes and that he had to put a good face on it, even if he was seething inside. He now takes his sore loser attitude to pub quizzes where he's usually on the winning side cos he has a brain full of trivia!!

I don't feel able to comment in detail on the rest of your post but I would just say that from years of watching boys play, it's very common for one of them to overstep the mark and go a bit wild. It's like their emotions take over and they can't control themselves temporarily. Maturity is very often all that is needed and they gradually stop doing it. But I understand your concern esp wrt to the combination of things bothering you, I hope you can get some reassurance from other MNetters.

[Jimjams]

How old is he compared to the rest of the year Ghosty? It's just that he seems a little immature (rather than there being a big problem iyswim). Things like attention, imagination and play tend to develop together (they rely on each other- it's all part of language and social development as well) so it may be that he's slower to mature in this particular area.

You may want to try some techniques- preferably before things blow. So if he's beginning to go over- you need to step in and stop the game. maybe with a countdown "1 minute more, 30 seconds then count down from 10" right finished. We use this a LOT in our house- with both boys. DS1 joins in the countdown now and that sems to calm him.

it tooks ds1 a LONG time to get over the shock of ds2- it really really affected him- so don't underestimate that.

[Ghosty]

Thanks clary, suedonim and jimjams ... your answers are much appreciated. DH and I have been really quite worried about DS since the birth of DD and I think you may be right JimJams, on both counts ... that he is a bit immature and that he has not coped with the arrival of his sister very well. So Clary, what you say is also true I think ... he is bothered by something.
I had another chat with the Kindy teachers today ... the Head today ... and she said that his behaviour is not out of order and pretty normal. She says he is trying very hard to 'fit in' since he joined Morning Kindy (5 days a week) and he gets over enthusiastic and doesn't know when to stop. She also made me feel a bit better when she said that he is not the only one who is like this. She was very pleased to hear that DS plays a lot with his dad and said that that is a very good thing (Obviously quite unusual?? For a father to play with his child??) but that DH and DS should devise a signal to give eachother when things get too rough ... quite a good idea I thought ...
Today I have made a real effort with DS ... DH stayed at home this morning for a bit to look after DD while I went to Kindy to do Mat time with DS ... he really appreciated that I think, and then we have just spent 2 hours doing lego together while DD is asleep ... and he seems much happier. So, I think I have discovered the problem perhaps ... that DS feels a bit on the edge of things at the moment because of DD and so a bit of special time with him might help.
Anyway, feel that I am talking to myself here a bit ... very therapeutic ...
Suedonim ... LOL at thought of DS being 29 ... thanks for your comments though ... I think you are right in that DS obviously does have a competitive streak ... we just need to channel it I guess ...

Thanks again ... and sorry for the ramble ...
G xx

[Ghosty]

Forgot to add ...
Jimjams, the age thing at Kindy in NZ isn't relevant ... a very strange system they have here ...
Public Kindergarten is in two sessions: Morning (5 mornings a week) and Afternoon (3 afternoons a week).
NZ children start school the Monday AFTER their 5th birthday ... so all year round children are starting school.
As a child in Morning Kindy turns 5 he/she leaves to go to school .... and that frees up a place in Morning Kindy. So then a child is moved to Morning Kindy from Afternoon Kindy. That frees up a place in Afternoon Kindy and they ask the oldest child on the waiting list to join.
DS joined Afternoon Kindy at 3.5 and had a whole year before he was moved to Morning Kindy. He has been doing that for 4 weeks now.
So, what that means is that all the children in Morning Kindy are between 4.5 and 5 years old.

In DS's case as his 5th birthday is right at the end of the school year he WON'T start school at the end of a term ... he will start in January after the long Summer/Christmas holidays. When he starts he will go into a small class of New Entrants ... and then that class will fill up as new 5 year olds have their birthdays. When the class is full they start up a new class.

I can never decide if it is an odd system or a good one ... sounds very complicated doesn't it?

Have I sent you all to sleep yet ?

[Jimjams]

Your post has reminded me of one of Biddulph's theries. He thinks it is really important for boys to play roughly with their Dads in order to learn when to stop. Apparently its a male thing!

As for the NZ system. My head is spinning! Does that mean he's recently gone from being the oldest to the youngest in the group? (Even though the ages aren't that different in morning kindy).

[Ghosty]

That is exactly right JimJams ...
DS was the oldest in a group of 42 children ranging from 3.5 to 4.5 ... and now he is one of the younger ones in a group of 42 children aged 4.5 to 5.0 ...
But every week a couple go off to school and a couple come up from Afternoon Kindy ...
At the moment one of DS' friends is still in Afternoon Kindy ... he is 6 weeks younger than DS and is waiting to move to Mornings ... his mum says that he hates Kindy now because he is the only one of his friends to be still in Afternoons ... They will get a phone call on a Friday to say that a place has come up and he can start on the following Monday ...
Bit nuts isn't it?

[Ghosty]

Me again ....
Probably just talking to myself but I need to write it down ...
I just came back from dropping DS off at Kindy. Today I decided to hang around for a bit and try to observe DS and his little mates. I sat in a corner and played with DD while watching surreptitiously ...
Anyway ... DS' little friends were very pleased to see him arrive (a bit late today) and thought it would be fun to hide from him ... the teacher was in on it and when they jumped out and shouted "Surprise!" DS thought it a great joke and off they went playing hide and seek ... arguing over who could and couldn't count to 100 (very sweet!).
Anyway ... they were having a great time, and sure enough some of them did get a bit over excited ... not DS though. So, one boy, who I have seen be a bit rough before, just went up to two others and gave them one huge pre-meditated shove so they fell over ... unprovoked and not part of the game.
I have to say that the teacher was pathetic ... she came over and said, "Oh dear, was that pretend?" ... and then got the boy who shoved to go and get some ice to put on the other boys knee.
My DS looked quite shocked by this incident and went up to the 'pusher' and said, "You must be careful 'N', 'A' just got hurt" ...
The teacher then told DS off for interfering ...
I was a bit taken aback really.
Here was an incident where the 'pusher' didn't get told off but my DS did for 'interfering'????

And this morning a mum told me that she saw DS pinned agains the fence by the 'pusher' earlier on this week, and another mum told me that two boys were standing on DS' arm earlier this week and she had to stop them ...

Um ... should I be asking other questions rather than worrying about MY son's behaviour do you think?

Anyway, hope someone reads this ... need reassurance ...

G xx

[coppertop]

What a nightmare! Your poor ds sounds like a little sweetheart. Would you be able to make an appointment to talk it over with someone at the Kindy and tell them your concerns about the way these matters are handled?