Still in nappies :(

[Tomfunsnumber1trolley]

I started a thread back in February regarding my son who is struggling with potty training. He is now 3.7 and is still resisting using the potty or toilet. Today we received a call from the health visiting service who nursery had contacted. They run a service helping children get ready for school ( he doesn't start until September '16) and thought we would benefit from some input regarding his potty training. I feel like a shit parent who has somehow let him down, we tried to let him do it at his own pace and follow nursery's advice but he was getting to a point where he was holding wee in all day and rocking and shaking. He will wear pants but again either holds it in and we eventually give in and out him back in a pull up or he wets himself.

Any suggestions or advice greatly appreciated. Just to give an overall picture He is very verbal and according to nursery quite advanced developmentally in this area and he reached most of his other milestones at an average time. However, he is very strong willed and has quite a temper. He is generally a very happy little boy and usually sleeps well but has been slow to settle this past week and was still up at ten o clock on Tuesday night. I'm not sure if any of this is relevant but I feel so upset for him (although he doesn't seem bothered).

[Littlefish]

Please don't feel that you are a shit parent. It's like many other things. Some children find it easy and some don't. Accept the support from the Health Visiting service - they might have some useful strategies.

[Tomfunsnumber1trolley]

Thanks, I know I'm being an idiot and DH has said pretty much the same as you. Part if me feels DS is being stubborn in some way, it's like he's made his mind up he's not using the toilet! We're meeting the health visitor on Monday, she seemed very supportive and understanding on the phone so hoping we get some tips.

[Littlefish]

I work in a nursery and have had several children aged 4 who weren't toilet trained yet. They had all mastered it more or less by the time they started school.

[CoffeeTwo]

Watching with interest as this sounds identical to DS who is 3.2. Feel like we've tried everything. He fully understands the process but has a complete aversion to it and it just isn't working. This has been the hardest thing about parenting for me so far.

[Littlefish]

Have you both looked at the ERIC website? They have some excellent advice about moving a child from pooing in a nappy/pull-up to pooing in the toilet.

Also, there's a great book/pamphlet thing that I think you can get online called "Poo goes home to Pooland". It's well worth getting hold of.

[slightlyinsane]

My ds was 3 and 10 months when we managed to get him to get rid of the nappies. From reading your post your lo sounds a lot like mine and at the end of the day it came down to him just point blank refusing to do it. I new he would be able to if he would just agree to do it. We tried everything, reward charts, sweets, picking a new toy, cold turkey and none of it worked.
I Can't remember what made me think of it but 1 day I sat him down and let him choose a new game to download on his sisters kindle on the understanding that this was his game and no one else was allowed to play it. In order to get a set amount of time with his game he had to sit on the loo. He got 5 minutes for this, then the time was increased if he did something on the loo. I Think he may of had about 15 minutes of his game before he actually did anything but after that initial start it all clicked and he'd go to the loo happily and get his time on the kindle. He was dry straight away, maybe 1 accident because of buttons. I don't know if it would work for you. With a strong willed child it's all about finding 1 of their weak points something they would love to do that they think they shouldn't be. For us it was the fact it was his sister kindle the one she would never let him play on and we were giving him permission to play on it at various times during the day, after hed been out of nappies for a wk we eased back on the over praise and stopped telling him he could play on kindle he asked every time for a few days but the novelty soon wore off and he stopped using the kindle. He did have to go commando for a wk until he got used to the feel of them.

[Tomfunsnumber1trolley]

Thanks for all your replies. He's sat on the potty this morning but hasn't done anything. A few times he's said 'I've done a wee' but he hasn't, he seems to think it's funny. I've looked at the ERIC website briefly but will have a proper read later today, thank you Littlefish.

[Tomfunsnumber1trolley]

Slightlyinsane yes our boys sound very similar, he is dry at night so I know he can do it and he has very good bladder control. We've tried various types of bribery but he seems to have decided he's not doing it. He's made a few comments about wanting to stay in nappies and not being a big boy. I'm glad to hear something eventually worked for your DS, I'm trying to think of something we haven't tried.

[BabyGanoush]

What happens if you just stop the diapers during the day?

I found it tskes 2-3 weeks if mess and attention, but they learn wuickly if there is no alternative?

Just getting your bucket and mop out, and live in parts of house with hard flooring/outside.

But maybe you tried that?

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

I remember your thread, I think (well I remember one, it was probably you!)

Please don't feel like a "shit parent", you're not.

I said on the other thread that DS1 didn't come out of nappies til he was 3.10, because, despite having been doing poo on the toilet for nearly a year, he still had no concept of when he needed a wee.

Do you need to use the potty? Can you just move him straight to the toilet? You can get those special seats that go over the toilet, ones with steps up even, like this - maybe that would work?

[Tomfunsnumber1trolley]

babyganoush we tried pants throughout the day for about 6 weeks, he did the whole mess and accidents for about 3 then he began to hold it in and didn't do anything all day. Nursery ( he is there full time as both DH and I work full time) were very concerned as he was obviously uncomfortable and spend hours rocking, this is when we decided to put him in back in pull-ups. We've tried it again a few weeks ago, there are not so much accidents as hold it in, at one point he hadn't urinated for getting on for 18 hours.

ThumbWitchesAbroad we have a seat for the toilet which he has so far point blank refused, those steps look good so I might look into those, thank you.

[Tomfunsnumber1trolley]

He has sat on the potty on and off from half seven this morning. Nothing. He last weed at 8 o'clock last night. DH has lost his temper with him and thinks it's time to be strict, I don't personally agree and I don't know he's exactly going to enforce this but I understand his frustration. I am on the edge of tears and can feel a panic attack coming on. I've said well just out your pull up back on but he's determined to sit on the potty which I guess is some sort of progress but I'm worried about him holding it in for so long.

[notmuchofaclue]

I don't honestly think you can get strict and force them. You can force them to sit on the potty but making them go is a different thing entirely. Our dd, nearly 3, has had problems with holding in poo for a year, and we only just tried potty training her. All it did was make her hold her wee in too, her record was 22 hours without going. It was horrendously stressful and we lost our temper about it on numerous occasions because she was inflicting such pain on herself. The Eric website has a helpline, give them a try. We also found a specialist consultant in kids toilet problems, based in NW London & Herts, which really helped - if you are anywhere near. It's nothing to do with your parenting, although I had those same feelings too, some kids just don't want to do it - yours sounds like he has the same iron will as my dd and it's so hard to get through to them. You absolutely have my sympathies!

[somewheresomehow]

is he tall enough to stand up to wee, if so try a ping pong ball in there and get him to try and drown it by weeing on it

[Bedsheets4knickers]

No help but it's nothing to do with you . I potty trained my son easy peasy. My daughter is horrified by it . I know I have an almighty fight awaiting me. She launches the potty across the room. They will do it when they choose x

[Bedsheets4knickers]

If he's holding it in , try some cold fluids so he needs to go more often . That's my plan x

[squiz81]

I think I commented on your last post. We just managed to get ds out of nappies, he is 3.5 months.

I have to admit I lost my temper, he was doing a poo in his nappy and refusing to use the potty....the new potty which he picked in the shop and assured me he would use...so I made a TV and dvd ban. I didn't like how much he wanted to watch TV so it solved two problems

He was so stubborn he didn't ask to watch it at first but when after a while he caved and asked and he was allowed if he tried to use the potty. We had 4 small wees during one week, then on the Friday he agreed to wear pants. (Big breakthrough for us) he had no idea at all when wee was coming and wet himself up to the Wednesday, then it clicked and he hasn't had an accident since, and has been dry at night. It was done in a week. I think he needed a good spell of time in the pants to figure out when he was going to wee.

I also had a lucky dip prizes bag full of small treats he was allowed to pick from as a reward if he did a wee in the toilet or asked to use it.

I feel your pain as the whole thing stressed me out, I could t see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[seaoflove]

I am in EXACTLY your shoes. DD is 3.7 and also starts school in 2016. Total refusal to toilet train (as in, never once has done a wee on potty or toilet). Take away the nappy and she will hold her bladder and bowels all day, to the point of extreme distress and pain, at which point it's usually bedtime and she goes in her nighttime nappy.

She has bowel issues (well controlled with medication) so I am especially reluctant to keep putting her in a situation where she withholds, because that could cause all manner of further bowel trouble. So I guess I'm not as strict as I could be.

I'm afraid I can't offer advice, other than to say you are not alone.

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

Forget the potty. He's too big for that. Try getting him to do stand up wees.

I sympathise but the above worked with my boy.

[Tomfunsnumber1trolley]

Thank you, it's nice(?) to know I'm not alone. We met the health visitor yesterday, she suggested a very 'hands off' approach. Not going on at him, not overly praising him, just being very laid back about the whole thing. He wore pants to nursery today and he appeared to have had only the one accident but the nursery nurse said he did use the toilet, however they have said this before and I don't actually think he was going just pretending. The nursery nurse also said how they'd keep reminding him which is really the opposite of what the health visitor was suggesting, I think we'll just have to see how it goes.

We put him in a nappy for bed as he hadn't had a wee since getting home, which he then proceeded to soak within minutes of putting on. DH changed this then he did a poo! We have now put him in underpants, unfortunately he has decided he's not sleeping and is still awake. I'm hoping he'll be dry in the morning as he did such a big wee before hand, he is usually dry if he's emptied his bladder before bed.

[zoemaguire]

There is LOADS of time before school, honestly. Ds only potty trained in the Feb/march before he started reception. He is now nearly 5 and hasn't had a single accident since starting school. I got very stressed, but he really did need to do it in his own time. We tried reward charts, bribery, the works, but it was all useless until he himself decided t was the right time.

[BikeRunSki]

The youngest child in dS's class was 4 the week before they started school. He'd been out of nappies about a month!

[Tomfunsnumber1trolley]

Thanks for the reassurance, I know he will do it in his own time and he is stubborn as a mule! From the few things the health visitor said, I feel nursery don't want the hassle of changing nappies etc. Now, I appreciate this I really do but he is there full time, we pay a lot of money for the nursery (Perhaps not relevant ) and if he's not ready he's not ready! I just don't want to force him again and to be taking two steps forwards then three back.

[BringBackCabinPressure]

Following. Dd1 is very nearly 4, starts school THIS September, and still won't use a toilet, although will now sometimes use the potty at home :(

[Tomfunsnumber1trolley]

Hi bringbackcabinpressure I feel your pain. Does she say why she doesn't want to use the toilet? DS doesn't but we wonder whether it all stems back to two consecutive incidents where he did a wee and a poo in the bath and basically freaked out. He seemed alarmed at seeing the bodily fluids actually leaving him.