Desperately need advice re: ds's behaviour issues at school

[mymama]

My ds is 5 1/2 and in prepatory year at school. I found out halfway through first term (after quizzing teacher) that ds's behaviour was disruptive/attention seeking in class and he had also been written down in the behaviour book during playtime by other teachers for dangerous/silly behaviour (some hitting). Following this we spoke to ds, put him on fish oils and started walking to school to de-energise him. He has been going great, received an award on assembly and quite a good assessment report. I had parent-teacher interview today and found out that his behaviour in the classroom is quite good but his behaviour in the playground is going downhill again and he has been written in the behaviour book most days for quite a few weeks. dh and I have no idea what to do now. We don't want our son to be the "troublemaker" and his reputation come before him with regards to other teachers. Anyone got ideas I haven't tried yet?? I have cried a river of tears today as I have no idea what to do. All suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[MissChief]

sorry, no real suggestions but can empathise as going thro same thing with our 5 yr old ds. was "warned" by his teacher completely hout of the blue the other day which was a real .
i'm guessing in his case it's due to the stress & uncertainty of our imminent move and the fact that i'm chasing round every morning tidying up for viewings ..so I'm ashamed to say he gets shouted at too much [blush[.
we're all working on it, have re-introduced a reward chart and are in regular contact with the school about this. can only suggest that you do the same and try to think what the causes of his behaviour might be - any changes at home etc?
HTH in some way- I've been in tears too, it's horrible, isn't it?

[kipper22]

i was going to suggest some sort of sticker chart/marble jar. maybe ask the teacher to write (or, if pushed for time, just draw a happy or sad face) in his reading record each day and reward him accordingly.

[mymama]

Thanks. It is nice to know that there are other children out there with similar issues. My ds is middle child and seems to want out attention constantly. In theory I should spend one on one time with him each day but that isn't always so easy to do. dh and I also having issues too so he could be acting up because of this. His school do a rewards day at end of term which has bronze, silver gold levels. He did get gold level this term but teacher said he won't get it next term unless he improves dramatically. Day to day reward from me might help.

[bouncyball]

Is he bored? What can he do in the playground? Could you suggest activities that might entertain him better. Could he have a job to occupy him? eg. look after new/younger or more sensitive child.
Is he responding to other childrens behaviour but getting caught. Could you ask to observe him secretely at playtime to see what he's doing and maybe what happens prior to the 'hit'. Is it always at the same time eg half way through. If so maybe he can't manage a whole playtime so could he do a job inside for half the playtime? librarian!!
I teach this age group and they would be the sort of questions I'd be asking.
good luck

[mymama]

thank you so much for your suggestions bouncyball. Apparently there is not enough equipment and is often one of the issues. It is a brand new school (2nd year running) and they are still building supplies. I also agree with you that it may sometimes be him getting "caught". He argues strongly that someone else did something first but because he is often in "trouble" the teachers look at him first. I am feeling a little better about it now as he has no incidents in the classroom only the playground. Jumping off the play fort is considered dangerous play and is his most common offence. Is that just a 5 yr old boy thing though??? I am not usually one to say "that is just a boy thing" but over exuberance on a playground is a boy thing imo.

[bouncyball]

hi had an indulgent weekend away without children with a friend so been off line, lucky me! Anyway back to your son. I would say new schools do take time to build resources so if playtime equipment is an issue then maybe you could suggest they ask parents in a newsletter to donate balls, hoops, skipping ropes etc. Also (not knowing the play fort in question) it sounds to me like thats a health and safety rule to keep children from having accidents and yes your son is clearly very confident and he can so he doesn't see why he should not. The trouble is others may copy so maybe you'll have to get him to understand he's not naughty but that he has to take care of the others who may try to copy and fall and hurt themselves. Personally my gut instinct is that he does not have a behaviour problem just loads of energy and not enough to occupy it. Try ideas to improve play eqipment for all and therefore your son. Also try going to the park before school to burn off energy as this will help him concentrate in class and compensate for boring playtime also!!!!
Don't worry he's normal.

[singersgirl]

My younger son (who will be 5 in August) went through a bad behaviour patch at school, mainly in the playground. It was stuff like you describe, but a bit more deliberately bad eg climbing over a fence to get to the caretaker's supplies/weeing in a sandpit - the mortification!

Don't know if your son's school already does this, but what worked for him was a sticker chart for every playtime. If he was well-behaved that playtime, he got a sticker, and when he had a certain number of stickers he got a small treat from the treat box. It was very simple but broke the negative pattern of behaviour.

Like your son, he has a lot of energy and a long playtime. Though jumping off the fort sounds pretty harmless compared to al fresco micturition!

[mymama]

bb indulgent weekend sounds lovely. We are on school hols for two weeks at the moment so I am concentrating on his behaviour and so far he has been lovely. I honestly don't think he is doing anything wrong as he doesn't understand the dangerous play aspect and consequences. We do walk to school most days but admit we get there right on starting time so he doesn't get time to have a little play/chat with the other kids before class time. Next term I will try to get their 20 mins early so that he can get that bit out of his system.

singersgirl - they don't have a sticker chart for each play time but do have one for each day. He does get one most days.

Thank you so much for your thoughts and ideas. bouncyball your input has been greatly appreciated as the teacher in question did not give me any suggestions/ideas on how to improve things.

[mymama]

need to bump this up again as have had another "issue" today. So far no more incidents that I knew of. ds has been telling me he would get in trouble for talking or running on the concrete or something (nothing major). I asked the teacher today how he was going and she told me that on MOnday he had scratched a child (pretending to be a dragon) and that she stood him up in front of the class and asked the other children what "we" could do to help ds. The result is that he chooses a different child each day to play with and this child will "teach" him how to play without playing rough or silly. I think the only reason she told me was because one little boy same up and asked if he could have "ds" on Monday just as I was speaking to her. I don't know if I would have been made aware of this otherwise. ds mostly gets in trouble for playing rough and silly in the playground (usually pretend playing) and for occasionally talking during group time. Is he a normal 5 year old?? Should I be upset that he has been made and example of?? Surely the other children must get in trouble occasionally?? Should I see the deputy head and ask why I am not consulted more. Can I please have honest opinions re this.

[fairyjay]

My ds is 14 and a lovely, sensitive boy - although he has his moments!
I remember getting really down over the sort of issues that you are hitting now, when he seemed to be over-lively and confident, without being mature enough to think of the consequences.
He was always the one to get caught! In a sense, this was because he wasn't streetwise enough to remove himself from a situation, when it was getting out of hand. We tried to work with him to encourage him to think of what was happening, but to be fair, you can only expect an older child to start taking this on board.
His one teacher in Yr. 1 - I think - did say that in this life, children have to learn to stand up for themselves - so she was determined not to squash his confidence, just channel it!
Not much help probably, just wanted you to know that probably most of us with lively boys have been there - and there is ultimately light at the end of the tunnel

[mymama]

thankyou fairyjay. It is nice to know others have other issues too. He is a handful at times and I am the first to pick up on his behaviour. I just don't think it warrants him to be "looked" after at playtime by his own playmates. He does not get in any trouble in the classroom - only the playground. His teacher is very quiet and reserved and I am hoping it may just be her way of dealing with children and that he may get a more lively teacher next year who can deal with children who are a little more boisterous.

[fairyjay]

Throughout Primary I always felt that the 'better' teachers were able to cope with ds, who was questioning and lively, rather than the more 'stuck in their ways' brigade, who just seemed to want a quiet life!
I agree that the 'looking after' in the playground seems rather harsh, and if she was going to implement that, it should have been done in a quiet, more sensitive way.
You wouldn't really want a little mouse though, would you?!

[sparklemagic]

what good posts fairyjay. Mymama, I'm sorry to hear you still have worries with this; and I am appalled at the way it's been dealt with, I think that to have him up in the class and ask basically "what can we do with him?" is outrageous. Yes, I can understand a bit of peer support but the teacher can do this by picking one or two of the more 'staid' sensible characters and encouraging them to engage with your DS on a personal basis, not 'front of the class' stuff. I can't get over it! Outrageous.

This resonates with me as my DS starts school in Sept and I think he's going to be very similar to your ds I think your DS sounds lovely, and his only problem is a teacher who doesn't know what's appropriate and not. If I were you I really would talk/write to her and say that you are not happy with the way she has dealt with it. They also need to be keeping you much more informed rather than suddenly upsetting you to the point of tears!

I agree with fairyjay, his personality will see him right in the end but he needs more positivity than this from his school. at the end of the day he is still VERY young and completely normal for his age!

[LizP]

I think this is a problem with poor supervision / guidance. I reckon every class has a couple of kids who have difficulty playing with the other kids - not saying they are very bad or naughty but don't 'get' all the 'rules' about playing with other kids when they first start. Because they seem to be basically ignored and left to their own devices this gets out of hand and then you see the silly / dangerous play. Think I'm very lucky that one of the lunch supervisors at ds school is really good about trying to show all the children how to play co-operatively - otherwise it sounds like it could have got a bit 'lord of the flies' like at times this year. Basically this is a long winded way of saying I think your ds sounds perfectly normal but the school aren't dealing with him very well.

[mrsdarcy]

What a relief to read this thread! My DS2 has just finished Reception and has been in trouble an awful lot. Like your DS, mymama, not for nasty behaviour but more for immaturity and silliness. He's worse at playtime than during class time. He doesn't seem to be able to play well with other children, either.

His teacher has also singled him out in front of the whole class. They do a lot of partner work and instead of working as a partner, the teacher said that someone had to volunteer to work with him and that child would be the "leader" instead of the "partner" and DS2 had to do as they said. I think it's part of this Co-operative learning technique they use (but could have totally got the wrong end of the stick!).

DS1 had the same teacher last year and did very well, but he is very conformist and, I think, easy to teach. It was a real eye-opener to see the same teacher with such a different child.

What did improve DS2's behaviour was when, on the occasions his teacher spoke to me about him, I strongly reinforced the way he was expected to behave. He responds quite well to being given a list of 3 rules. In our case, we had: focus, follow the school code of conduct, look at the speaker. It wouldn't work for every child, certainly not for DS1, but it made a big difference with DS2. We had a spell when the teacher would just give me a glance at pick-up time, or a thumbs-up or down, so I knew what sort of reinforcement was needed at home.

I intend to speak to his year 1 teacher in September and ask if we can set up a similar line of communication - that doesn't involve me hogging her time but enables me to work with her.

Mymama, what is your DS's year 1 teacher like? Will he/she be a contrast to the reception teacher? He sounds very like my DS2: essentially a "good boy" who would love to be praised and rewarded but can't quite marry up his behaviour with consequences!

DS2's reception teacher is very authoritative, quite controlling, pretty firm - she's very kind with them but tough as well. The year 1 teacher is a wispy little thing who many of the parents find it difficult to warm to, but apparently the children adore her. I'm hoping she'll make DS2 feel more confident and special.

[1320jackie]

Hi Your son is no troublemaker some of what you say is similar to how my son is and my son has just been diagnosed with mild autism and mild DCD which is developmental coordination disorder look this up it may or may not be useful to you. my ds is just like those i've been reading about he is 7 and this behaviour has been going on since he was 3. He was a late talker and a lot of frustration came from this, biting in preschool, didn't understand how to share which caused him to get upset and aggressive. He is a big boy for his age so he stands out from his peers, School have been fantastic the special needs teacher saw that he was having problems in class and at play times. He is aggressive with his play so finds it hard to make friends, he has tantrums, silly behaviour in class but i speak to the teacher and assistants weekly and they do smiley face charts in class and reward him with lots of stickers and praise but they try to ignore and not make an issue with his bad behaviour and its seems to be working he will come out of a tantrum as though it never happened (attention seeking). we do charts at home and he seems to respond well to visual instructions. He will be starting year 3 in September, i am a little worried as he moves up to the bigger kids playground as i do not want him being bullied or getting the name as a bully but with the help from him being diagnosed and support from teachers and playground staff understanding him i don't think i will have to much to worry about. Try looking up the above items and try to get as much support and understanding from everyone (family, friends, teachers) it all helps I've cried just as much in school and out so your not on your own. Good luck

[mymama]

Thank you all so much for the replies. I have spoken to him over this weekend and given him two rules to follow regarding the playground for this week. The first is to use the play equipment properly ie not climbing up slide and no jumping etc, and the 2nd is to not touch anybody even in fun or pretending. I have set up a chart for each day he can stick to those rules.

mrsdarcy I don't know which yr 1 teacher he will have yet as our school year is Jan to Dec. There is a lovely yr 1 teacher who is bubbly and outgoing but also quite firm with the children from what I hear. She "knows" ds as she has found his coat and lunchbox a couple of times and returned them to him when on duty. I think she would be good for him as I think she would be able to handle outgoing children a little better.

After thinking over the weekend I realise the teacher is responding to my concerns about the behaviour but I am not happy with pulling him up in front of the class and not telling me about the situation and I intend speaking to her about that. ds said it made him feel bad to have all of the children talking about him whilst he was standing at the front. he also told me that his "buddy" from a higher year level calls him dumb because he doesn't always understand what he is saying to him , so I will be also speaking to her about this. The buddies are supposed to be their special friend in the school who can help guide them, not put them down. Thank you everyone for your replies.