DD still wetting every day at 5 and soaking night-time pull-up

[soupmaker]

DD is 5 and half. To cut a very long story short she hasn't been dry since potty training at 3. We have also had recurrent poo problems - but after 2 years they seem to be sorted with medication and routine.

DD's wetting seems to be getting worse not better despite being on oxybutynin for urge incontinence and an over active bladder over a year. We have a clinic appointment coming up - on my due date but they are like gold dust so don't want to cancel, but just feeling at the end of my tether today as have had to completely strip her bed this morning and she's had 3 massive accidents today at her holiday summer club.

She wears incontinence pads to try and manage the situation as she started school last year, but she just keeps on wetting until she gets saturated. I know she can change her pads - she manages to do this at home - but when away from home just doesn't bother. No amount of rewarding has ever worked and she just doesn't seem to care or make any attempt to help herself at all. She has admitted to weeing in her nighttime nappy when she wakes up instead of going to the toilet which is less than 5 yards from her bedroom, which is what I think is causing the bed wetting.

I am at the end of my tether, and due to have DC2 in less than 3 weeks. Am dreading further regression from DD.

Any advice? Anyone been there and done it and come out the other side? Any advice about how to deal with health professionals who just don't seem to understand how stressful this is for all of us?

[claudedebussy]

my sympathies. my dd1 has similar problems but different so i can't comment on specifics. all i can say is that i understand your frustration.

i think the reason she doesn't do it when she's not at home is because she's embarrassed about it. the other kids don't so she doesn't want to.

i have stressed to the medical people i've seen how upsetting this all is. at least then they know even if they do dismiss me.

big hug because it is pants

[soupmaker]

I think you are probably right Claude about her being embarrassed. DD leaks a bit of wee and if she just went to the loo at the first leak into her wee pad, finished her wee and changed her pad she then wouldn't end up soaking which the other kids do notice. I just have no idea how the mind of a 5 year old works! I just feel so helpless as we are trying to do everything we can to help and support her but nothing seems to work.

[soupmaker]

And yes it is pants, lots and lots of pants!

[clairefromsteps]

My sympathies too! DS is 6.5 and still not reliably continent. We have a lovely enuresis nurse who has given us lots of help. Ignore me if I'm preaching to the choir, but the things we found that worked well were a wobl watch (available from the Eric website), increasing his fluid intake, cutting out all fizzy and 'dark' drinks (Ribena etc). We also had problems with him just wetting his pull ups rather than getting out of bed in the morning, but a reward chart worked quite well there - a bit old school, but effective!
We are coming out the end of his incontinence now, but it has been a struggle and you have my every sympathy.

[soupmaker]

Thanks Claire.

It feels so much better that other folks understand the frustration.

We've been advised to stay to clear of black currant drinks and fizzy juice, which has made a bit of a difference.

DD drinking loads of water every day at home but not sure how much she really gets through at school.

Good to hear about the watch. Been thinking about getting one. Think DD will like it so will just get on with ordering one.

Reward charts haven't really worked for us. We have one for sitting on the toilet morning and night to help with the poo issues, and so far it's helping but don't want to push my luck with another.

Might do sweetie rewards for doing a wee in the toilet first thing - needs must!

[claudedebussy]

what do you do with the wobl watch? set it for every couple of hours to go to the loo?

my dd just refuses to go to the loo. if i insist, she'll go and not do anything so no point. then 5 mins later she'll say she has to go and i've got 1 minute to get her there.

that gets very wearing.

i must say that at least with the medicine she is dry during the day. that was a very big milestone for me. but we're not close to being dry at night.

we have poo issues too.

soupmaker, sounds like the oxybutinin isn't working if she's still leaking all day though?

[soupmaker]

I agree Claude, either it's the wrong medication or the dose needs increased.

We have poo clinic this week so going to raise issue there.

Continence nurse on holiday for 2 weeks so just had to leave yet another message and if I'm induced with DC2 will not be able to keep wee clinic appointment as we will be in the middle of labour!

[claudedebussy]

is there no-one else who can take her?

you really just have to get through the next few weeks. cut yourself some slack - doesn't matter if you miss the appointments. doesn't matter if she has more accidents. give yourself a break and don't attempt to resolve anything for the time being.

you've got a lot on your plate!

[Ragusa]

That sounds really toigh, specially with a new baby on the way. Practically and emotionally.....

Have they established a cause for the incontinence and leaking? Is it just 'one of those things'. Don't have any practical advice I'm afraid but plenty of sympathy. Are you seeing a really good specialist?

[soupmaker]

Thanks. Some days it feels tougher than others. Poo issues at least getting better and seem to be winning that battle for the moment.

She doesn't really like wearing pads, but it just makes life so much easier for us all if she does.

The wee nurse is lovely but had 5 months on long term sick without proper cover which hasn't helped. And I feel especially pissed off as DH took DD to last wee clinic appointment and explained about my due date and was told we'd have an appointment at least the week before!

We don't have anyone else who can take DD to appointment so going to stamp my feet at poo clinic tomorrow. We're under care of poo professor so have best care possible in that department.

[soupmaker]

Sorry meant to say, DD been diagnosed with irritable bladder and urge incontinence.

The poo issue eventually got diagnosed as with holding.

[iwouldgoouttonight]

I don't have much other advice but really sympathise as we have the same issue with DS (nearly 7). He's never been dry for a day since potty training. He's got a lot better with poos and has a lot less poo accidents than he used to, I think taking movicol every day has helped.

We have recently started using pant liners to try to stop him smelling at school but i'm not sure whether it might be making him worse because he knows he can let a bit of wee out without anyone noticing IYSWIM.

Something I think has helped is getting the school on side. We've had a lot of chats with them and our urology nurse came to the school to talk to the teacher and now they make sure he's drinking plenty during the day and one member of staff takes him to the toilet during break time and lunchtime (otherwise he'd just get carried away playing and not go).

And we find we really have to nag the hospital/GP because otherwise we end up waiting months between appts and they then say things like 'he'll grow out of it, come back in six months'! At which point I found it hard not to punch someone!!

I think DS has got better but it is so gradual we've not noticed. We've been getting him to wee in a measuring jug every week or so to see if the amount he's been holding in his bladder has increased.

I've probably not been much help but just wanted to let you know you're not alone, people who haven't been through it don't always realise how upsetting and stressful it can be and how it starts taking over your life.

[soupmaker]

Hello IWGOT. Great name.

I agree about the pads, they do help with there being less mess, but I also think they've made DD a bit lazy and complacent.

School has been okay. I've been in to see DDs teacher, who is sympathetic, but there is a limit to what they will do. I don't think they really remember to get DD to drink and despite arranging for DD to get out of class 5 minutes before each break to try for a wee and check her pad I don't believe they are consistent.

I don't think anyone really understands the emotional stress of having an incontinent child who is happy and healthy in every other way unless they have been there and done it. I felt so much better once we at last got some answers and that it was diagnosed as a medical problem - up until then I just thought it was all my fault for being rubbish at potty training.

[iwouldgoouttonight]

Its definitely not your fault. I blamed myself for maybe doing potty training wrong but I've done it in exactly the same watt with DD (4) and she is dry day and night. It is a medical problem, its good that your doctors have recognised it.

I'd keep talking to the school about how important it is for her to drink, we now have a teaching assistant who sits and has cups of water with DS because if they gave him his water bottle they couldn't see how much he was drinking (normally not very much!) but we do have to keep reminding them every so often because they get a bit lax with it.

DS's school breaks up for summer today so we'll be able to spend a bit more time with him, reminding him to go to the toilet, and making sure he spends longer there to fully empty his bladder.

Its put a strain on our whole family and me and DP's relationship, however much we try to remain calm and think its a minor problem in the whole scheme of things, after spending years having to carry extra clothes/wipes wherever we go, not being able to leave DS at parties or friend's houses in case he wees on their sofa, and him coming our of school every day with a bag of smelly wet clothes and a sad face, it is very hard.