People refusing to get up for old people on buses?

[sausagenmash]

I just (ish) got the bus to work - double decker bus, very busy and rammed, trudging through south London. I was very lucky to get a seat near the back as the bus starts near where I live. Anyway, about 20mins into the journey, when it was rammed, I overheard a youngish Mum (when I say youngish, I mean around late 20s - youngish in comparison to who she was shouting at) shouting at an older lady - late 50s, a bit doddery - older lady asked if she could sit down. Now, Mum and said daughter, aged around 7ish - were sitting in the 'priority for disabled and older people' seats. I can understand it if the mum and her daughter were disabled in some way - but they weren't - saw them skip off the bus when it was their stop. The mum said that they had got there first, they had every right to sit there, and this woman had to lump it - she even told her to ask someone else. Loads of people intervened - this mum lost it. Eeek. Another kind person got up for the lady instead, who was probably the same age. I would have got up, but I was about 10 feet away, squashed in by 2 pushchairs, 8 people, and 5 months pregnant - by the time I would have got to the lady, someone else would have nabbed my seat.

Anyway. Am I? Should people give up their seats for people in need on public transport if they are able? I think this mum was being a bit unreasonable...

[ForeverOptimistic]

She was being unreasonable but I don't consider late 50's to be old so I probably wouldn't have offered to give up my seat either.

[HeadFairy]

Of course they should, it's just good manners. I do get very annoyed at people watching an old person strap hang when they've got their child sitting in a seat next to them. I don't begrudge them their seat, but why not put the child on your lap to allow the other person to sit down? To me it's a no brainer. I've stood up to allow someone to sit down when I was pg, and stared hard at young men in their 20s studiously ignoring me.

[TeeBee]

Outrageous. I was always taught to give up my seat for anyone older than me on the bus when I was a kid. It shows a great lack of respect IMO. If my kid had a seat and a grown up - who pays a full fare - was standing I would get my kid to stand up or sit on my lap. And I would happily get up and offer someone else my seat. I think we need more manners, it helps everyone's day a little bit better.

[joyfuleyes]

bloody hell since when as 50s been old?

[sausagenmash]

FO - no I don't think 50s is that old either - but as I said, she was a bit doddery, and when I saw her get off, she had a bit of difficulty walking. Am not very good at judging older ages though. She was very wrinkly and some grey hair. Mind you, so do I and I'm in my 30s... I do get up since I've been pg, but it was a bit of an obstacle course to get there - this was right at the front, and I was squished at the back... I am very good at the staring bit too, although last time I did that I got given the finger

[BonsoirAnna]

Here in Paris there are seats reserved for men injured at war/mothers with young children/old people/the disabled etc and there is a very clear notice saying who has priority over whom (mothers have priority over the elderly, for example).

Much better when the rules are clearly spelled out IMO.

[nailpolish]

yes they have that here too anna

big signs on the seats and windowns

but this person obv chose to ignore

btw 50 is not old

my mum is 50 and she would be mortified if someone offered her a seat

[WhereTheWildThingsWere]

I agree, though yesterday evening after a hard afternoons shopping my 4 yo anounced loudly as we got to the bus stop 'Oh mummmmeeeeeeeeee there's nowhere to sit and my legs are soooooooooo tired' and two women (30's ish) both imediately jumped up and offered him a seat, I was so , but they insisted and he sat down. Was very funny and restored my faith in human nature.

[WhereTheWildThingsWere]

I agree, though yesterday evening after a hard afternoons shopping my 4 yo anounced loudly as we got to the bus stop 'Oh mummmmeeeeeeeeee there's nowhere to sit and my legs are soooooooooo tired' and two women (30's ish) both imediately jumped up and offered him a seat, I was so , but they insisted and he sat down. Was very funny and restored my faith in human nature.

[troutpout]

yes they should of course give them up seats for someone evidently older/less able.... if that person wants it.
good god though...i will be 50 in 8 years time...will i really have young people offering me their seats?

[nailpolish]

have just realised mum is not 50 but 60

she still would be mortified though

(god i feel old now)

[sausagenmash]

Well, that's different WTWTW - you were clearly in need! I think this woman was too (may be wrong about the age.. could be older) Ah well. Was just a thought I had...

[CaptainKarvol]

It can be a minefield.

I distinctly remember being shouted at by a lady I offered a seat to as an unnaturally polite teenager - she gave me the full 'how OLD do you think I am?' huff at full volume and I was very .

BUT, the OP describes someone asking for a seat - no brainer IMO.

If you can make space, and you don't think they are just taking the piss for fun, then why not do the decent thing?

[VinegarTits]

Depends how the woman asked imo, i dont consider 50 to be old, did she ask the girl nicely if she could sit down?

If she demanded to sit down then i could she why the girl got defensive

[sausagenmash]

I know what you mean nailpolish - my Mum is nearly 70 and gets most indignant if she's offered a seat. Secretly, I think she's delighted though

[sausagenmash]

I didn't hear her, but I think she asked 'would you mind if....', judging on what people were saying to the mum in her defence..

[sausagenmash]

That's the standing up lady's defence..

[poppy34]

yanbu - agree with those who say kids should go on lap.. remember having to give up my seat on tube at abotu 6 months prengnant for someoen who was about 8 months pregnant and clearly about to faint.. the studious avoidance of gaze by middle aged men was interesting.. in teh unlikely event anyone was foolish enough to procreat with these pillocks, I wonder how they'd feel if their partners were treated that way.

agree with anna french system much better -and people generally much better there about offering places

[laweaselmys]

It would definately be best if the reserved seats had a priority system written (drawn) out so you could see who needed to sit down more. Can be heard sometimes if it's heavily pregnant woman versus elderly person - neither should be standing and risking falling over really.

[notcitrus]

Totally unreasonable of the mum - but IME thankfully rare. I ended up needing a stick and then wheelchair during pregnancy and as soon as I asked or people saw the stick, they would practically fight each other to stand up. (I don't think it's a problem if people jsut don't notice you as long as they move when asked) And local elderly people tell other people to give standing elderly people their seats.

Only time I had a problem in about 200 bus rides was two girls aged about 10 who when I asked if I could sit down, said 'why?' The four elderly ladies in the other priority seats gave them a right earful and they moved.

Although despite the signs on buses saying the big spaces are reserved for wheelchair users and may be used by buggies when not needed by wheelchair users, parents and bus drivers are crap at enforcing this. Was very glad I could stand a little and fold my chair as it takes a lot of guts to insist that two or three parents and pushchairs get off a bus, especially when the driver couldn't give a toss!

[shelleylou]

at the age of 7 i was offering my seat and if i didnt have chance to mum would sk me to move so someone that needed the seat could sit down.

It is annoying i was 7 months pg got on a full bus nobdy offered me there seat at all so i just stood up. Think they all had a shock when i fainted. Was only then that someone offered me their seat and helped me over to it

[CatWithKittens]

Poor DH got into dreadful trouble last year offering his seat on the Tube to a pregnant woman who tore him off a strip about equality and called him sexist!! He was so cross that he said "I'm very sorry to have cause any offence - I made the error of mistaking you for a lady!".

[rosmerta]

Cat, my dad had a similar experience when he held the door open for a woman, she had a go at him for being sexist, my dad said 'I don't do it because you're a woman, I do it because I'm a gentleman'!

[Lucifera]

Well I'm 54 and get offered seats on the bus quite often now; I don't think I look doddery but I do have grey hair and am sometimes carrying a couple of things and trying to read a book! I'm always v grateful and accept. It's horrible for most people trying to stand up on bendy buses in London. My view is that anyone less able to stand should be offered a seat, whether pregnant, old, wobbly on feet, carrying small child, whatever. And it does surprise me when tiny children occupy seats instead of laps, when people are standing.
A few months ago I was standing on my way to work when a pregnant woman got on the bus; no-one made a move, so after a minute I said to her quite loudly "I'm sure someone would offer you a seat if you wanted one." Then someone immediately leapt up for her!

[GrimmaTheNome]

I was once on a crowded train with my parents. I was PG, my parents were into their 70s. Mum asked for a seat for me even though she's always had trouble standing.

I can't remember the outcome now, though I'm sure at least I must have got a seat... if you knew my mum, you'd have not dared stay seated