To think Greenpeace deserve a Nobel Prize for leaking the terrifying TTIP negotiation details.

(26 Posts)
Backpfeifengesicht Tue 03-May-16 15:36:38

Sorry, I originally posted in the news topic threads.

Bravo Greenpeace for managing to publicise the truth on what's going on in these negotiations. The details are as terrifying as I had feared! It's looking more and more like the TTIP could be dead in the water and now that voters can see the damaging details hopefully it's done for good. This turn of events makes me want to vote to stay in the EU as I'm 100% sure that if we leave, our government will be begging the USA to sign away our rights in a TTIP agreement.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/ttip-leaks-shocking-what-are-they-eu-us-deal-a7010121.html

morningtoncrescent62 Tue 03-May-16 15:54:22

Yes, agree, they deserve the Nobel prize and much more.

President Hollande announced this weekend that France will veto any TTIP agreement that could endanger the country’s agricultural sector. Germany’s economy minister Sigmar Gabriel has also spoken publicly of TTIP collapsing.

I notice we've yet to hear what Cameron thinks.

misskelly Tue 03-May-16 16:15:05

Agreed, I think TTIP is a terrifying prospect for the Uk. My main concern is that our current Conservative government aren't showing much indication of being against this treaty.

Andrewofgg Tue 03-May-16 16:18:31

Hollande may be doing the right thing for the wrong reason. Protection is wrong, wrong, wrong, and every generation has to learn that anew. It's no different from Trump threatening to put tariffs on imports from China.

wasonthelist Tue 03-May-16 16:27:49

So the fact that unelected EU negotiators have been trying to keep as much of this secret as they can for years is proof we're better off in the EU? Ok then, seems legit.

Greenpeace do deserve a medal. The EU doesn't

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 03-May-16 16:29:58

I'm glad they leaked it, however, I thought it was all already known?

RE the EU they are a lot bigger than the UK, the UK on its own would just have to sign whatever the US wanted with no negotiation, or not trade with them.

Backpfeifengesicht Tue 03-May-16 16:34:25

Miss - agreed which is why this is important enough to me to vote to stay. I was actually leaning towards voting to leave before but this has been a reminder that as much as the EU sucks, they still hold onto their principles in regards to environmental, health and consumer protections. The NHS is too important to risk!

NipplyNamechanger Tue 03-May-16 16:40:49

From what I've read it's not that the NHS is at risk from TTIP. The issue is that once privatised, as the Torys are doing now, no part could be returned to public control without corporations being entitled to sue.

amicissimma Tue 03-May-16 16:54:40

"the UK on its own would just have to sign whatever the US wanted with no negotiation, or not trade with them."

We (the UK) have no trade agreement with the US, either alone or as part of the EU, yet we trade with them. Countries don't trade with countries; individuals or companies in one country trade with individuals or companies in another.

If we don't 'sign whatever the US wanted', do you think that Congress would allow a law that would prevent US citizens from trading with citizens of another democratic country, specially the world's 5th largest economy? If they did, how long do you think that would last?

No country has to enter any agreement with another. I can't see why the EU and Cameron seem so keen on TTIP. Arguably our best hope is that a 'leave' vote will result in Cameron standing down and being replaced by an anti-TTIP PM, but we would need to be vigilant about his replacement; people with Tory MPs would need to badger them appropriately.

Andrewofgg Tue 03-May-16 17:18:15

amicissima The US has a long and dishonourable history of preventing its citizens from trading with other people by the use of tariffs. A tariff can be effectively a prohibition.

Pettywoman Tue 03-May-16 18:47:13

Democracy and sovereignty would be effectively dead in the water if ttip went ahead. Big corporations being able to sue governments if they disagree with them. This is happening in South America under similar deals.

I'd rather be in the EU which has a relatively good record on environmental issues and food and safety standards, human rights etc. We can at least negotiate and vote for MEPs.

Good on Greenpeace.

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 03-May-16 18:52:57

People have known about the TTIP for several years.

So YABU Greenpeace is far behind the times on this.

2rebecca Tue 03-May-16 18:57:05

Green peace aren't "behind the times" ffs. They are the first people to let ordinary tax payers and voters see what our politicians are singing up to supposedly on our behalf behind closed doors.
I'm really disappointed at how the media are ignoring these revelations. It is far more important than half the crap in Wikileaks.

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 03-May-16 19:18:42

2rebecca

This has been out for two years at least.

So yes, some of us have known about this for several years without greenpeace.

you may consider greenpeace the be all and end all of this but its not the case.

Toadinthehole Tue 03-May-16 19:22:02

Bravo to Greenpeace. The TPP over the other side of the world was negotiated in exactly the same way - utter secrecy. I am still left wondering who or what demanded this secrecy: presumably the US. The government here in NZ made absolutely no comment except to sneer at people raising concerns about this secrecy as "anti-trade". Oh, and we got $20M spent on a daft flag referendum. There has still been just about no real public discussion about the text, which was only released a few weeks before ratification, hence no chance for public debate. Most people here have given up demanding answers on what it means. For all we know, in the next few years we will be told to lower animal standards, pay more for medicine, dismantle our creaking health system, limit our tax take, all ^"because TTP">.

Despite being an important agricultural producer, we already get cheap American meat and fruit on our shelves. It's awful, tasteless stuff. I don't touch it, not least because of the abonimable way their animals get treated. I'd be dismayed off if our local produce went the same way.

The EU and the US would have done precisely the same had it not been for Greenpeace. But before anyone blames the EU, I also believe every single government would have done the same had TTIP been negotiated with individual member states. It is usual for trade deals to be negotiated in secret, but trade deals of this scope are unprecedented.

AdrenalineFudge Tue 03-May-16 19:28:48

Actually no, Greenpeace have been on some sort of crusade to paint this in a certain light from the beginning and pre-empted this with a lot of hyperbole along the lines of (American) lobbyists are evil. They've successfully scandalised something quite reasonable.

2rebecca Tue 03-May-16 20:02:25

These documents detail the positions held between the 12th round of TTIP talks and the 13th. The 12th round of talks were held in Feb 2016 NOT 2 years ago. The 13 th round were at the end of April 2016. Yes we have known about TTIP for well over a year but this is the first time for most people that they have had the chance to see the actual documents and detail being discussed.
Maybe Boneyback is involved in the TTIP talks so had special knowledge those of us just campaigning against TTIP but frustrated by the secrecy didn't.

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 03-May-16 20:06:21

2rebecca

Have it your way, I can't be bothered to deal with snide comments.

2rebecca Tue 03-May-16 20:11:37

Or accurate ones?

Pinkcadillac Tue 03-May-16 20:15:56

YABU

These documents don't reveal anything new

MrHannahSnell Tue 03-May-16 20:20:21

There's nothing new here that I can see and the whole TTIP thing has been demonised by a lot of people with their own very specific agenda. If Hollonde veto's it that will have more to do with his own position in the polls (low and going down) than for any other reason.

caroldecker Tue 03-May-16 20:38:14

We currently trade with the US under WTO rules - this will continue under Brexit unless we agree differently with the US. They cannot unilaterally introduce new rules as it is against WTO rules.
As for GM foods, they are the only thing that will prevent mass starvation across the world over the next 50 years. Our banning them and pressuring African countries to ban them is causing hundreds of thousands of child deaths and blindness every year in Africa for one plant alone (golden rice).
Not sure how this is different from other EU trade deals already in force (such as with Korea)

AdrenalineFudge Tue 03-May-16 21:01:33

Imho it's really Greenpeace that needs to be a great deal more transparent in their public affairs activities.

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 03-May-16 21:35:35

2rebecca

"Maybe Boneyback is involved in the TTIP talks so had special knowledge those of us just campaigning against TTIP but frustrated by the secrecy didn't."

Just snide.

Greenpeace are not the only group that have been vocal about the TTIP, maybe you should be more open to other sources of information.

caroldecker Wed 04-May-16 00:52:20

So Greenpeace are an independent arbiter?

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