So if a man stabs his wife four times it's not actually murder if she's leaving him fir another man

[iPaid]

It's manslaughter apparently. The poor husband snaps, reaches for a knife and sticks it into her 4 times but isn't found guilty of murder because y'know what's a man to do when he knows his missus has got another chap?

Daily Mail link because my iPad is crashing on other newspapers.

And he'll probably be out in less than 8 years

[MrsTerryPratchett]

What is the name so we can search under it for non-DM link?

[MammaTJ]

Yeah, I too would need a non DM link before wanting to read it. I would not want to be turned into a misogynistic cunt while trying to form an opinion on this!

[iPaid]

The killer is Jonathon Cudworth.

[Pooseyfrumpture]

Clearly that makes it all ok.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-35326149

[iPaid]

Might someone, in those circumstances, who has realised both the deception he has been subjected to and the fact his life was about to be utterly shattered, snap, as Cudworth did? asked his QC.

Any the jury agreed!

[StealthPolarBear]

Why do you think this should be murder? I thought murder was pre meditated

[IfItsGoodEnough4ShirleyBassey]

Murder doesn't have to be premeditated - if you stab, strangle or shoot (etc) someone with the intent to cause gbh and they die then that's murder even if you do it on the spur of the moment. The defence of provocation has been used by wife murderers for ever but I hoped it was being restricted nowadays - apparently not.

[Ohfourfoxache]

Premeditated or not, this is not ok

Surely its to do with intended/unintended consequences?

[StealthPolarBear]

Oh ok thanks. I thought eg a death in a pub fight would be mas laughter.

[StealthPolarBear]

No its not ok. I'm not arguing it is.

[Lweji]

Considering how cold he was after killing her and how he got rid of the body and reported her missing, I'd have considered it was premeditated. So, murder.

But the jury would have to be sure it was premeditated beyond reasonable doubt. Hence why they probably were able to agree only on manslaughter.

[TPel]

I saw that and was horrified. Women are still expendable it seems.

[StealthPolarBear]

Fair enough lweji I didn't read that far down

[IfItsGoodEnough4ShirleyBassey]

Premeditation is completely irrelevant under English law.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

It is murder IMO, as he used a weapon, obviously with intent.
He clearly lost his mind though when he found out, which I suppose you can understand. But please believe me when I say I most certainly do not condone his actions though.

[IfItsGoodEnough4ShirleyBassey]

...actually that's not quite true sorry Lweji, I was still thinking about SPB's point. Premeditation is irrelevant to whether it's prime facie murder, but it is relevant to the defence of provocation - I think that provocation has to be spur of the moment or you can't claim it as a defence.

[Sairelou]

Absolutely astounded by this, especially with the lengths he went to to cover it up. Manslaughter is punching someone, them hitting their head on something then dying. If you stab someone four times then you are intending to kill them imo.

[Lweji]

Yes, sorry, should have used intent instead of premeditation.

[LadyLuck81]

It's mens rea that you are looking for in murder I seem to recall from my criminal law lectures many moons ago which is subtly different to pre-meditation.

If be interested to read a full case report before deciding that all women were dispensable etc etc.

[iPaid]

Judge Adele Williams said if they (the jury) believed that Mika threatened to leave him and believed that was the trigger for Cudworth to snap, they could acquit him

So if a woman threatens to leave her husband, he can brutally kill her then cop a lighter sentence because the bitch caused the poor soul to 'snap'.

[StealthPolarBear]

Just Googled. I get it now. So this is clearly murder.
Manslaughter could be hitting someone, intending to hurt them but not anticipating they'd die. Stabbing someone in the chest is more likely than not to cause death. And that's before you add on the cover up

[BYOSnowman]

To me this reads as the old 'crime of passion' defence which I thought was never a defence in this country

If there isn't a retrial (which I guess there won't be) I hope he gets added time for anything they can throw at him (hiding a body is an offence isn't it? And trying to lervert the course of justice by posting on her Facebook?)

[WilLiAmHerschel]

Sairelou that's what I thought manslaughter was too.

Rip Mariola.

[LauraMipsum]

Shirley is right that Parliament tried to restrict the provocation argument in cases of wife-murder for adultery (because the appropriate response to finding your wife is / might be having an affair is divorce, not stabbing). However the Court of Appeal effectively reinstated it by finding that although infidelity is no longer capable of forming a defence to murder, "infidelity plus" can do - so for example, if your wife is unfaithful AND then taunts you about it. And of course she can't give evidence on the subject, because she's dead.

There's a really good article about it here: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jan/23/infidelity-plus-defence-murder