Dog crate

[BoredAdminGirl]

Not sure if I am posting this in the correct place but I have a question.

I have had my rescue dog for just over a year now and she has been allowed to sleep in the bedroom (I know, cant resist those puppy dog eyes), however after a couple of "accidents" I have stopped her from coming in. Only now she sits outside my bedroom door crying and whimpering all night.

She has never (since I've had her) used a dog crate but have heard that these can be comforting for a dog, their own personal safe space.

Would it be unfair to start putting her in one during the night now? Would it cause more upset? I don't knwo what to do.

[WorraLiberty]

I wouldn't, but then I hate dog crates anyway.

I think they're far more 'comforting' for the owners who need the dog to go into them.

If she's keeping you awake anyway, is there a chance you could let her out for a wee during the night?

How old is she?

[GloGirl]

It probably would but some dogs like having a den. Leave the door open at all times, make it cosy, put nice treats like a filled Kong in there and sit with her whilst she gets used to it.

My puppy never liked his so as soon as I could trust the furniture he was allowed to sleep freely in the kitchen.

It would be easier to fix the night peeing. It sounds like she is being incontinent in her sleep?

[Backforthis]

If you have room I'd stick one in the bedroom for her with some cosy bedding in. For the first couple on nights leave the crate door open.

[Booboostwo]

No harm in trying but you have to crate train her. So crate placed in a part of the house you are all in and moved when you move to sleep, crate appropriate size (see guides on line), nice food inside and don't close the door until she is comfortable with this.

You may also need to ask why she is suddenly soiling overnight. If it is urine I'd suspect a UTI, but either way a visit to the vets is a good idea.

[Floralnomad]

I agree with everything worra said . If you do decide on a crate you can't just put the dog in it you need to spend time training it to go in ,and some dogs do not like crates .

[Birdsgottafly]

You need to work out why the accidents are happening.

I used to foster dogs and what you've done is created a dependence.

Nervous, settling in dogs respond better to clear boundaries and routines. They should be done with kindness, though.

She needs a space that can be cleaned, where she won't be disturbed, to sleep.

I would start with a comfy place to sleep and sorting out her needing to wee through the night, tbh.

[BoredAdminGirl]

Sorry, my post wasn't clear. She isn't soiling in her sleep, she is going in there to pee! She is a bichon frise and has that submissive urination which I have been told can't be cured.

I take her for a walk when I get home then let her out to pee before bed but she pees a hell of a lot during the night in the hallway (on puppy pads).

I agree with dogs wanting clear rules and boundaries. I think I am going to have to put in some hard work in retraining her. In her old house she was kept outside permanently and how she has serious seperation anxiety. She literally follows me from room to room. If my DP goes to the bathroom, she cries outside the door.

[sparechange]

You can't start using a crate now as punishment or a dog prison for her.

The reason they work is that you create a safe space for the dog, who considers it their 'den' and keeps it clean because it is where they sleep, and go when they need to take themselves away from household noise.

It is fine to keep her out of certain rooms of the house, but you need to give her a bed, and use doors or stair gates to block her out of rooms in the house. If you want to start crate training, then put the bed in a crate, but you can't start locking her in it suddenly. It will confuse her and won't help the stress urination at all...

[BoredAdminGirl]

You can't start using a crate now as punishment or a dog prison for her

Most certainly not using it as a dog prison. As I said in my OP -

She has never (since I've had her) used a dog crate but have heard that these can be comforting for a dog, their own personal safe space

[sparechange]

The point of a crate is that you don't put the dog in there. The dog puts itself in there.
So if you want to stop her wimpering outside your door by locking her in a crate, I'm afraid that is very much using it as a dog prison!

She is wimpering because she wants to be in with you, so you could say that she is lacking a space she thinks is safe and 'hers', so in that respect, a crate could be a good solution.

BUT, you need to see crate training as separate to the short-term need to stop her wimpering. You might have to put up with that or find a way around it until she is happy going into and staying in her crate, if that makes sense?

[Floralnomad]

Having read your further posts I don't think a crate would be a good idea as she may end up sitting in her own pee which may cause her skin problems . Could you litter tray train her ,you can get giant litter trays .

[TweedAddict]

I can't get my dog of an crate. She's had one since an puppy-mainly because our older dog took an little bit of time to get used to her-grumpy sod-loves her now though.
We keep on trying to get rid of the bloody thing but she doesn't settle. She lasts a few weeks then destroys everything in sight. I once come home too a huge hole in the wall, a kitchen cupboard hanging off the hinges, dog bed fluff everywhere and the curtains pulled down. She had been totally fine for weeks and I was only out for an hour after her morning walk. She had access to the crate but utterly destroyed the place. She loves her bed/crate it's just such an shame that she can't be trusted out of it

[LeChien]

My dog has a crate and loves it. It it his safe place and he goes there willingly and happily.

I think it's worth a try, but take it slowly, make it comfortable, reward her with treats or toys (whichever she responds best to), some dogs like a cover over it so,it's like a cave.
If it's submissive weeing, having a safe place may help her.

[BoredAdminGirl]

The point behind the crate would be so the dog feels secure so doesn't feel the need to cry at my door. I would not lock her in there. I just want somewhere she can call her own and feel safe and less anxious

[StarkyTheDirewolf]

My dogs have a crate and they like it too, but they've had one since they were tiny, my oldest dog uses to have to travel on a train with me so she has a dog travel bag (which, given the opportunity, she'd still sleep in). The dog crate is in our kitchen and we have a baby gate across the kitchen door for when we're out.

Agree with a pp that said to get a crate, but leave the door open, put her bed and some treats in there and let her get used to it. She may settle better with a safe place.

[sparechange]

OP, it is definitely a good idea to have somewhere she can call 'home', and some dogs like that to be an enclosed space, so a crate is perfect. You could also look at dog cave beds as an alternative.
But what you can't do is force her into it, and training her to feel safe and treat it as her 'space' takes time.
But it is a worth a try.

The suggestion of the giant litter tray is utterly absurd though!

[Booboostwo]

I repeat this because it's quite important, has she been seen by a vet? This could be a physical issue with a locution.

If not you need to deal with it on a practical front and train her out of the underlying issue. Practically clean accidents with something like Simple Solution and set the alarm to wake up and take her out at night. Her anxiety may benefit from establishing a safe space for her and training her to go there, leaving the room for very brief periods of time and also worth trying Adaptil and Zylkene. All dogs benefit from the mental stimulation of training so it's worth asking if there is more you can do in this respect.

[Floralnomad]

Why is a giant litter tray with a puppy pad instead of litter more absurd than having puppy pads just lying about ? At least with a tray it's confined and the pee is likely to stay in one place rather than getting on carpets / floors ,with a small dog it's perfectly feasible - my mums Ragdoll cat is bigger than a lot of small dogs .The OP has said that the dogs pee problem is long term and she uses pads so not a great leap .

[BoredAdminGirl]

I have booked her in to the vets for friday and have booked her into training and obedience classes.

Until then I will make her up a safe place in the spare bedroom perhaps and put some treats and her favourite toys in there. I know it takes time as I have read up on it. Like you aren't supposed to associate the crate with negative behaviour or punishment. Some people suggest placing treats and food in there and letting her go in on her own

[Ta1kinPeace]

Dogs can be trained to love their crates at an older age.

As a place where they can curl up at busy times without risk of being kicked they rapidly associate it with safety.
Do not close the door at first.
Then close it when you are doing loud stuff like vacuuming
Then close it if you need to nip out for 5 minutes
within a few weeks she will happily sleep in it over light and fall in love with you all over again in the morning.

[sparechange]

Why is a giant litter tray with a puppy pad instead of litter more absurd than having puppy pads just lying about ?

Because it is a dog and not a cat. The dog isn't peeing on the puppy pad because she is trained to pee on the same thing. She is peeing outside the door out of stress and the puppy pads just happen to be there.
Putting a litter tray in its place isn't getting to the root of the problem, which is the dog feeling scared, and also being over-attached to the OP and not wanting to leave her side. Dogs don't use litter trays and responsible owners don't encourage their dog to pee inside.

[georgia777]

I suppose if she has a genuine bladder issue she will just pee in her crate. I've not read whole thread but my pup took about 18 (long tedious) months to not pee at night. I found having her on my bed only thing that stopped her. I got her a dog cave bed which she now sleeps on next to my bed. I also found taking her round the block at about 10 worked as she doesn't pee as much in garden.

[Biggles398]

One of our dogs has a crate that she goes in when we go to bed or go out (not due to accidents, but she chews/escapes/destroys...). She loves her crate, and will sometimes take herself off to it of her own accord.
She has been to toilet in it a couple of times, but when she was younger, and I think she had an upset stomach (tmi, sorry). However, she did take much longer than my (male) dog to house train