AIBU to not let DS have his best friend around for tea?

[CrapBag]

I am prepared to be told that I am BU as I genuinely don't know with this one.

There are very few boys in DS' s class so there does tend to be a little gang of most of them, when there is a falling out it does impact the whole group. The teacher is aware there are problems and the reasons why, although I am not sure if he is aware that the main problems seem to stem from one child's total dominance (and I do mean total dominance).

DS wants to invite a friend for tea, I asked him who and he said X, his supposed best friend, but I am unsure whether X actually describes DS as his best friend anymore. They are in year 2 and have been close since reception. At first it was the 2 of them (with no problems) then over time another 3/4 have joined and they have their little group.

Unfortunately X absolutely rules. What he says goes and the rest of the sheep all follow blindly along because they know/think they are out of the group if they don't. Some days X will decide a certain child can't play. It has been DS before, as a result this child will be completely left out until X decides they can join in again. When it was DS's turn, this lasted a week. He has been unpleasant to DS, I noticed when DS arrives in the morning X frequently won't acknowledge him when he goes over. During the week leading up to World Book Day, X kept shouting in DS's face because DS wanted to be the same character as X and he didn't like it. I had to speak to the teacher about this as DS was too afraid to go into the playground on the day.

It's not huge things (at the moment) but the rest are all the same, follow blindly along, and us as parents are frustrated with it as we have talked to our children and said friends don't treat you like this, you don't have to follow etc and they all say "but he's our leader" and "we'll be out of the group" which when there are so few boys, it's a big deal for them. DS wont play with the other 2 boys in the class who aren't part of the group as they aren't into the same things he is. It's a shame as they both seem like lovely (and much quieter and calmer children than 'the group').

I am reluctant to have X over as all problems seem to stem from his dominance and dictatorship (and the other parents are getting the exact same stories from their boys so it's not just mine who says where it all comes from). Plus last time he trashed DS's bedroom and I really thought he had broken a lot of his Playmobil the way he was smashing it around, his table manners left a lot to be desired too.

It's strange as his parents seem lovely although we don't see much of them as they are at work. He is foreign and couldn't speak much English for a while and these problems have only really been happening since this year, possibly as his English has significantly improved. That's the only reason I can really think of as to why this hasn't been happening in the past 2 years at school.

So MN, would you suck it up and accept that they have at least another 4 years together and are likely to be friends so I can't not let him over forever or am I right to say to DS that I am not happy with his behaviour and to choose someone else?

[ImNameyChangey]

The issue here is not tea..because of course you should not invite this boy...but rather that you seriously need to go in and speak to your son's teachers about the bullying that is going on.

Invite one of the other boys. Just lie and say "DS X is going to be very busy...so who else would you like to ask?"

And go in to school and ask them what they're going to do about this situation.

[YouTheCat]

I wouldn't lie. I'd tell your ds he can't come due to his behaviour last time he visited.

The boys will eventually work it out for themselves and pair off more as they get older.

[laughingcow13]

I think you should let your DD manage his own friendships.
Namey What do you think the school can do about this?

[ImNameyChangey]

Laughing I would expect them to get a handle on it because it is bullying. Exclusion is bullying. This boy is dominating the others through fear. That's bullying. It needs to be stopped.

[AyMamita]

ooh, a boy queen bee! Queen boy? King bee?

YANBU. The boy sounds horrid.

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

If one of the other DCs had thrown your DS' playmobil around would you never have another playdate again? It sounds as though you're looking for reasons not to invite this DC round despite the fact your DS wants to invite him.

I think it's a bit mean not to let your DS choose. tbh if this DC is so domineering and upsetting in the playground then I would expect the school to manage his behaviour. He's still quite little. They should be alert to DCs being excluded from the group and they should encourage them all to play together. Our school is very proactive in those circumstances.

imo there's something horrible about all the parents getting together to discuss this DC's behaviour in a critical manner but not doing anything positive to address it.

[Ratfinkandbobo]

It is one thing to have leadership qualities and to assert dominance in a group environment, but this child is essentially bullying, I thought schools had policies on these issues. Based on your last experience of his visit to your home, I would not let him over to play as he treated your sons toys so badly.

[CrapBag]

The school do encourage them and DS's teacher has been brilliant. There was an incident before the easter holidays and the teacher got involved and since they have been back, DS hasn't reported anything bad which is good.

The parents aren't all getting together to discuss this child's behaviour. I am good friends with the mum of one of the other boys and the aunt of one of the others so we have spoken about it and we all have similar stories.

What positive things to address it would you suggest? The ones I know of have told our DCs that this isn't what being a friend is and they should walk away when he is being mean but they just won't do it. We can hardly go in to school and ban them all outright from playing with this boy. I have spoken to DS at length but ultimately it is his choice with who he plays with and I just ask him how things have been. If he tells me about something that concerns me then I will go and speak to the teacher. I have also told him that if he joins in being mean then he will end up in trouble and I know this would upset him. Ultimately he likes this child so I have to just keep an ear out.

[Ratfinkandbobo]

It is a difficult situation, my dd had one girl who used the divide and rule tactic in high school. It is telling that now they are all in their 20's no one is friends with her, but then again the girl in question developed a drug habit and went off in a different direction.
Why don't you invite another boy from the group over?

[APlaceOnTheCouch]

I think the school could take more positive steps to manage it. When we've had similar issues, the playground monitor (either a teacher or a TA) has moved very quickly to organise group activities so no one child can be excluded/isolated. They then hold a circle time in class to talk about playing nicely together, including everyone, how it makes them feel. My DSIS' school has a friendship bench where a DC can sit if they are feeling excluded/isolated and then an older DC/TA/teacher will help them to join in.

At DD's previous school, they were slow to act and a dynamic like the one you describe was able to take hold. At DD's current school, they are consistently on top of it. It can lead to more general friendship groups which in turn, seems to make it more difficult for a Queen bee personality to dominate.

[Ratfinkandbobo]

Btw yanbu, my DT's are in the same year as your ds, but they are 'cushioned' as it were, because they have each other. How they are treated by their peers is still important to me though.

[cleanmyhouse]

I'd say no because he isn't a very nice friend.

And I'd be having words with the school.

My youngest had one of those in his class, made life bloody miserable for him. I hated him, even if he was 28 years younger than me. I would never have had him in my house.

[Ratfinkandbobo]

APlace your dds school practice restorative justice, very good imo.

[CrapBag]

AFAIK they have discussed it in class. DS did say something before the teacher talking to them all about being nice, what friendship is etc. They also have a friendship stop, which is similar to the bench. I have no idea if anyone actually uses this.

The teacher does act when he knows. When I went in about the World Book Day, DS said he got X in and spoke to him about whether it was nice to treat his friend this way and other things. I also addressed it at parents evening and if things are bad for a particular child, the teacher gets them to do a smiley/sad face chart each day so he can monitor how their day is. He is very good at trying to get them to resolve their issues together and if they can't he then steps in to help them. I am unsure if he is aware it is mainly down to 1 boy. He said its a testosterone thing where they are all trying to be the alpha male but it's not really as they all let X happily be the alpha male.

So far since they have been back nothing has happened. I think the incident before the holidays and the teacher sending us notes home has had an effect.

If I do hear of more happening then I will go in and spell out the problems and who the usual instigator is. The teacher is great at acting on it, when he knows. My problem is DS can be very reluctant to tell him something even though he said to him to come to him anytime.

[Ratfinkandbobo]

I disagree with the alphamale clap trap, as girls do it too. It is an individual in a group that does this.

[Biscuitsneeded]

Boys and girls do this. They might do it in different ways, but they all do it. It's extra tricky when the school is small and there aren't many other children to be friends with if the King/Queen bee decides to isolate you. I'm not sure you can do much if this is the natural dynamic and the group has decided that X is their leader, but I would keep on inviting other boys round in the hopes that more solid bonds can form and they might have the courage not to just go along with the wishes of King Bee.
I'm not sure that parents always realise that this sort of thing can be a major disadvantage in smaller schools. I know people who pay a lot for their children to be in small classes in prep schools, only to discover that the pool of potential friends is very small indeed once you rule out the bullies, the already-best-buddies and the ones their DC just doesn't like much.

[taxi4ballet]

A pack of wild animals might have an Alpha male (or female) and perhaps it might be instinctive 'natural' behaviour in a group, but... aren't humans supposed to be a bit more civilised than that?!!

[lem73]

Ds2 had a friend like this in Infant school and I did stop having him round because I hated the way he made himself the leader of the group. All the other parents I spoke to were fed up as well and we jumped for joy when he moved schools. Don't encourage the friendship out of school and try to have other friends round.

[laughingcow13]

people can not make themselves a leader!! they are leaders because people want to be be led by them.this is why the school will not be able to do anything about it

[lem73]

Well laughingcow when the boy who wanted to boss my ds and his friends around left the school, the boys never sought out a new leader. They all managed to get along nicely. Even at secondary school they are a lovely group. It really was a case of one rotten apple.

[Variousrandomthings]

My DS had a friend who was an utter and complete dictator. By year 4 the dictator found himself isolated as nobody wanted to play with him. He then rethought his ways and has improved lots but is still hard work.

[FatherHenderson]

I would invite some of the others boys round. Maybe even have a super play date with 2 or three of them? Or go to the park but not invite the bullying one. Give as many boys in the group a chance to enjoy each other's company with hour the bully.