To think this is domestic violence

[worriedsister30]

My sister and her boyfriend are having an argument (he's a 6"2 brick shithouse, if that's relevant)

She pushes him away from her because she doesn't like the way he is shouting at her close to her face. He pushes her back so she picks up her bag to leave, with which he takes the bag from her and throws it across the room out of arms reach so she can't leave. Then grabs her her and pulls her in to another room to continue the argument.

She says it's normal, I think she's minimising.

What do you think?

[LaurieFairyCake]

Pushing each other is violent so yes, they both are.

[WorraLiberty]

There's nothing normal about that at all

It might be normal for them to behave that way but it's not what society calls normal.

[FreudiansSlipper]

wtf is a 6'2 big built man doing shouting down a woman

of course she is going to push him away he is acting in an aggressive way that is threatening

sadly he has probably built up to this level of aggression and she is getting used to it, unable to see what is ok and what is not

if she will read up on dv she will see a pattern

[petalsandstars]

Yep dv. Although she pushes him - she is trying to get away and he is preventing her - so I would say he is the major person at fault

[hellsbellsmelons]

This is not normal or right.

You call him a boyfriend. Do they live together? Do they have children?
If not then she needs to get out of there.

Stopping her leaving, being in her face, throwing things, none of this is good! And if it's early days, it will escalate and she will keep minimising.

And I know she pushed him first but if someone was in my face shouting then I'd want them away from as well. And... she tried to walk away and leave but he wouldn't let her.

Not sure what you can do about it all though. She needs to come to her own realisation.

[FreudiansSlipper]

pushing someone away who is crowding your space, shouting you down, acting in a threatening way is not a violent act it is protecting yourself

[ColdTeaAgain]

Really hope your sister leaves this man OP, it sounds like very a slippery slope to me :(

[worriedsister30]

Thanks all. She had been with him around a year when that happened. They each have a son from previous relationships. She left him shortly after the incident for that, and other things. Then got back with him and hid the fact from me and our Mum but it slowly became apparent.

I told her I thought he was abusive and dangerous and emotionally abuse too about six months ago to which he took great offence, calling me a "fucking whore" over the phone which she now denies happened like I'm a crazy person).

Since then I have maintained relations with her but he has (as I told her today) hidden himself away like some kind of creepy figure in the shadows so I have no evidence to go on that he has "changed" as she says.

Today she and I had a conversation because she wants him at my mums house for her birthday celebrations this weekend. It will be the first time we all see him and my (and there) children will be present so I told her whilst I have to live with her choice to stay with this man, I am anxious and nervous to have him around us. He genuinely intimidates me and I'm not one to be intimidated by any man.

She's pretty upset with me and has said that the stuff she left him for is "normal" etc. Which is why I wanted to canvas opinions. I am pretty demanding and have high standards for how people treat me (which I am very grateful for and dearly wish she had been blessed the same) so sometimes I wonder if it's just me being over the top.

I worry for her all the time. Most of all I worry that the more we exclude him (although this is the first time I've said I feel worried that he will be there - all along he has hidden away through choice) the more of a victim it makes him and that it kind of unites them against the world. But I am genuinely scared to be in his presence.

[Pobblewhohasnotoes]

It is not normal behaviour and yes she minimising.

[Finola1step]

It's not normal, it is abusive and your dsis is vulnerable.

Keep the contact going with your sister, whatever it takes. He is probably very happy to play the hard done by bf that no one likes for no good reason. He will be even happier if your relationship with your dsis becomes strained.

[worriedsister30]

Just to add, he lives in a town about 2 hours away from us and we're scared shitless she'll move there and we'll have even less of an idea what's going on

I've let her know that there will never be an "I told you so" and that there's a place for her here if she ever needs it.

[worriedsister30]

finola that's what he's done. He has said that he didn't want to be near us because we had judged him and it was unfair.

I don't know what the sudden interest is in being present for her birthday. Although interestingly when I said to her quite gently that I felt anxious about seeing him and how could we move past it, he immediately went down the route of "oh there they go again, judging me and outcasting me and I'm now not coming because it's all so unfair" I kind of wish I'd have called his bluff now so he had to come. But I genuinely feel anxious to be around him and especially with the children - I had to say something.

Apparently he won't speak to me on the phone but he will write me a letter about why he's a good person and I'm wrong to judge him

[ColdTeaAgain]

In the short time I've been on MN, it's so sad to see how often this sort of story crops up. Abusive men who manipulate everyone around then to gain control and oppression.

Think you need avoid making an issue of the birthday get together. I'd put money on it that he'll be on his best behaviour in company because men like him will want to make it look as though you are imagining things or making it up. You have told her you feel but I would leave it at that for now because he will only use it against you and you need to avoid her distancing herself from you.

[FreudiansSlipper]

if you can get her to read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft or look at the freedom programme (support programme) she may have a better understanding of what is going on

it will not get better, he will not change but she can move on and he will play the victim to isolate her more

[worriedsister30]

Thanks Freud, I looked at it on Amazon and will send her the link

[hellooctober01]

Definitely don't lose contact with your sister.
A close family member of mine was in a similar situation. He'd do things like throw her clothes into the street, force her to drive home from his house even after she'd been drinking because he'd hit her if she stayed, guilt trip her etc. but only on special occasions like if she got a promotion or on her birthday or valentines day because he loved her misery and ruined every happy event for her.
He used the whole 'your family hate me and make me uncomfortable for no reason' card and she kept falling for it and taking him back because she loved him and he 'needed her help' cos he was such a poor, delicate soul and she could 'fix' him

Really he was just a tit, and she finally left him for good after he told her he hated her DCs and would only tolerate them if she had a baby for him thus making her stuck with him in some way forever. She saw sense and felt awful for her DCs for all the missed time because he refused to come to us so she'd leave them with her DM and rush off to see him. Just make sure your DSis has lots of lovely support and you never tell her 'I told you so' and try not to slag him off because chances are she's telling him 'My DSis thinks you're a total twat' when they argue and he will use that as leverage to keep her and him away from you all.

[worriedsister30]

Yes I think my dsis falls in to the trap of wanting to "fix" her partners. She was always friends with the underdog at school when we were little.

I try to tell her that's all very nice but that adults are responsible for their own happiness and these men don't deserve it.

She definitely sees the families dislike of him as a comment on her. I've tried to tell her we think no less of her because of him but somehow a "them and us" has formed and every comment made that isn't in favour of him makes this more clear. So maybe I have to just suck it up and be around him in order to keep her