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to not understand why football has become so non-competitive for kids?

(62 Posts)
Isthisoneleft Mon 02-Sep-13 16:45:15

The Football Association has made it for the 2013/14 season U9s cannot play in competitive leagues - they play a match against another team, no record of the score can be made, but you still have the hassle of travelling for home and away games, where on earth is the incentive in playing something that no one can win?

In 2014/15 U10s and under will be non-competitive
In 2015/16 U11s and under will be non-competitive
In 2016/17 U12s and under will be non-competitive

AIBU to think this is ridiculous for a sport? These kids are going to get to 18 never having played in a competitive match.

IloveJudgeJudy Tue 03-Sep-13 21:11:10

I agree with the new rules. DS is a football ref and the abuse from the sideline (which the players of whatever age copy) is abhorrent. This is the kind of thing, together with the development of skills, that it is trying to promote. The academies do not allow parents to make comments of any kind on the sidelines. They are trying to bring on the players, not have all drive, etc, shouted out of them by the behaviour of some spectators.

The DC will be trying just as hard, except it will be in a different way. They will be trying to show their coach (who also has to have a different mindset now) how skilful they are, even if the result is not a goal. That is what is meant to be praised now, not the "win at all costs" mentality. You hear parents of very young (8yos and younger, even) telling their DC to bring the best player on the other team down. This is part of the reason why we have not won a world cup for over 40 years. We simply do not have the skills. We have the brawn, not the brain. That will only take you so far.

Isthisoneleft Tue 03-Sep-13 19:12:41

Ok based on the arguments for this new implementation I will go into this season with a more open-mind ready to brace the situation.

But and it's a big BUT I reserve the right to revert it's a stupid idea on a freezing cold February morning when I have no idea who's winning or losing and the kids are not full of the internal drive!!! grin

BlingBang Tue 03-Sep-13 18:42:21

and you've completely missed what people are saying. these new measures are to improve the standard of play and hopefully build more rounded better players and it seems to be working for other countries that put concentrating on skills etc above winning a match on a sunday for 8 yr olds

0utnumbered Tue 03-Sep-13 18:34:11

What a load of old cack! Teaching kids that everything is sunshine and rainbows and no one's feelings are ever hurt, no one ever fails or loses is leaving them severely unprepared for the real world!

I remember when my little brother played football, he never got upset when he lost! He just practised loads with my dad in the garden to get better and win next time! what is going to motivate them to improve?!

Kids don't HAVE to play football, they choose to! If they can't handle losing and get upset then they can quit and try something else. There were lots of girls at my dance school who chose not to compete but went to the classes for fun, can't kids just attend the training to learn how to play but not attend matches if they don't want to?

teacherwith2kids Tue 03-Sep-13 18:13:03

To add to what i bsaid above, DS had weekly games against other academies.

Each game was 'competitive', in the sense that the boys wanted to win. HOWEVER, the coaching during and around the game was not about 'how to win against this team'. It was about 'how to put our technical skills into practice in the most effective way. Feedback woiuld be on e.g. specific passes, specific moves, specific passages of play and possible alternative courses of actions or skills, not on 'well, that got us a goal so it was OK'. Also, each game was in quarters, with lots of substituting for each quarter and even within each quarter. However effective a player was, they did not expect to play the whole game. They expected to play a biut, get feedback from the coach about their play, maybe work a little with an assistant coach on something they were finding hard, then be put back into the game again. As well as the score, notes were taken of e.g. how many passes a player did - while the boys did like 'winning' each quarter (or losing by less each time) they were praised for all those other aspects of their game as well.

UptoapointLordCopper Tue 03-Sep-13 13:31:28

Sounds good kim. I should get my act together and sort something out (after I sort out the scared-to-fall-in-water-of-unknown-depth business hmm).

kim147 Tue 03-Sep-13 13:24:47

I do sailing now. Just potter round in the club boat enjoying the sunshine. I'll occasionally do races but it's nice just sailing around the bay.

UptoapointLordCopper Tue 03-Sep-13 13:17:50

I want to row in one of those lovely (or not so lovely) wooden rowing boats (failing that anything would do), and I want to row on my own. And I don't want to row like there's a shark chasing me. There doesn't seem to be anything like that. Perhaps I'll have to look for a private instructor!? Are you still rowing?

Sorry for hijack blush. I'll get into the spirit of the thread and put in my 2p's worth (though have not read entire thread):

If you play a competitive game you play to win. If you kick a ball around with friends you kick a ball around with friends. If you win you win. If you lose you lose. No crowing. No whining. Those are my rules for the DC. As for me, I detest team sports. It's ALL ABOUT ME. ME. grin

kim147 Tue 03-Sep-13 13:08:42

It's great. Just like you see in the Olympics. But the club's all about winning and was so competitive.

I just like rowing along, looking at the scenery. Maybe I'm not a good team player.

UptoapointLordCopper Tue 03-Sep-13 12:59:55

kim tell me more about rowing club. I fancy being able to go where I want to go in a rowing boat instead of going round in circles. grin But I want to go slowly. If I want to go anywhere in a hurry I get a motorised thing.

kim147 Tue 03-Sep-13 12:50:51

The attitude of the coach was to shout a lot and to try to encourage me to go faster.

I don't respond well to that grin

kim147 Tue 03-Sep-13 12:50:00

I joined a rowing club a few years ago. It was all about winning races - whereas I was just happy to be on the water learning to row and having a good time.

There are people who just want to do a sport or activity without having to be all competitive about it.

MrsMelons Tue 03-Sep-13 12:37:17

I do think that children should be able to play for fun also and have the opportunity to do sobut those wishing to play competitively should have that choice.

MrsMelons Tue 03-Sep-13 12:35:57

I don't think I am wrong, I think it is my opinion from what I have witnessed but I think maybe it is less so in youth football as the children playing have chosen to do that and of course want to win. I guess I was generalising as many schools seem to promote non-competitive sport/PE etc.

There are statistics to prove that the children who play competitive sports generally do better academically as they have the right mindset to do well and achieve.

Tiredemma Tue 03-Sep-13 12:09:36

"everything that is wrong in British sport IMO is the "everyone is a winner, everyone wins by taking part"

I really agree with this comment- football aside (because i think some good arguments about 'lack of skill' have been raised here).

Look how well we did in the Olympics. You don't win medals by having the attitude that 'everyone' is a winner. You have to have the passion and drive to 'win'. Without competition seriously what is the point of sport?

BlingBang Tue 03-Sep-13 12:02:07

i think you are wrong saying there is no drive, it's non competitive etc. my 7/8 yr old played a match nearly every sunday and tournaments. the kids played to win every time, they were playing their hearts out. what is horrble when you have games that end like 10-0 . the kids still play to win and compete - doesn't really matter if it's logged and put on a score table. they are still moving to better teams and being scouted and going for trials.

LadyBryan Tue 03-Sep-13 11:52:39

everything that is wrong in British sport IMO is the "everyone is a winner, everyone wins by taking part"

MrsMelons Tue 03-Sep-13 11:26:34

My DS has just started in an under 8s side which we knew was non-competitive but we were looking forward in a year or 2 to him playing in competitive league sides so basically every year he moves up a team that age group becomes non-competitive - ridiculous.

I am fed up of children having no drive or no motivation due to this 'everyones a winner' attitude. You don't get anywhere in life without amibition and motivation.

There are lots of football training sessions children can attend weekly where they do not play competitive football so I don't see why they cannot leave it as it is and those who wish to play competitively should be able to. I could understand under 11s maybe but once they are at seniors then it should be competitive IMO. The new rules re squad sizes will help children with their technical ability so I can't see the issue.

I have witnessed dreadful behaviour on the sidelines even in the pre-season friendlies, parents shouting abuse and swearing at 7 YOs, children refusing to shake hands at the end and swearing, fighting between parents and abuse to the ref, this is all before the season starts and one friendly was abandoned due to parents causing trouble. Really awful but clearly has nothing to do with it being competitive or not, just vile parents!

utreas Tue 03-Sep-13 10:18:54

Isthisoneleft- All though having some games that are cakewalks for some teams isn't ideal I think its a vast improvement on the current system. The current state of affairs is bordering on desperate, my team (Tottenham) have spent more than £100m this summer and have not bought a single english player so something needs to be done.

Bowlersarm Tue 03-Sep-13 10:18:19

Interesting debate, with good points.

The only thing I feel I can add is that my DS plays at a very high level. When he was in a local Sunday league club the competitiveness from both the clubs themselves and the parents were at a ridculously aggressive level.

At 11 he went to a professional club and the competitiveness stopped team vs team. It was more about watching individual players and bringing them on, rather than the match results.

Now with the youth team, winning is important again. They want to win cups, tournaments, the league etc. to the coaches it is of paramount importance.

So I suppose, at premiership level, the competitiveness doesn't come from the parents. They are keen their own son is doing well, but not really passionate about the team and it's results, in itself.

competitive is good, win at all costs is not IMO

BlingBang Tue 03-Sep-13 10:10:52

They are competitive though - in the kids eyes and the everyone else really. They are trying to get the ethos I suppose that trying your skills out and giving all players a chance of playing in matches and putting their skills into practice is more important than the end score. If the coaches, parents and kids just focus on the end score then you will be tempted to favour and play your stronger players, shout at defenders to 'kick it out' etc rather than trying to encourage them to to 'technical'.

Well, IMO it's pretty pointless teaching the technical aspects of the game, if it doesn't carry over to the match. The whole point is that they take the skills learnt during training into the match.

It's not about winning at all costs, it's about having the technical skills, the vision, the ability to pick out a pass or move into position for the ball or using the whole width of the pitch.
That's what they are taught during training but if the whole mentality of the team is win at any cost, then you get one person taking on the whole team and scoring, you get players out of position, defenders up front trying to score.

It doesn't teach anything other than bang in as many goals as you can and forget the rest.

And this isn't what professional clubs look for.

If its a case of parents wanting their DC to progress I the game, they need to understand that in order to be recognized, they need the technical ability. They need the stamina that comes from doing the same drills over and over. They need to know what position to be in to receive the ball, which pass to make, how to communicate, agility and speed.

It's not about which team scores the most goals or wins the league.

I don't think "win the league at all costs, never mind the actual technical aspect" is good. I don't think it helps the sport at all

Isthisoneleft Tue 03-Sep-13 09:50:37

But isn't technical aspect of the game for training sessions/friendlies - not the match?

Take the premier clubs (although I just want kids to be able to play today not be aiming for the premiership) they play their Saturday match and train during the week.

My kids train during the week and play matches on the weekend, these matches are now non-competitive due to teaching technicality, so what is the training for during the week?

utreas i agree with the idea behind this. I just worry that the divide between the abilities of different teams, once they are all in the same "division" will be too much.

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