ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
To think that someone who's finally had a 'much wanted' baby shouldn't go on about how hard it all is!!(153 Posts)
MNHQ have commented on this thread.
Ok, before I get completely and utterly flamed (am expecting it!), a close friend of mine had a a series of miscarriages,but in end wasn't trying too long for a dc (we have friends who've been trying to conceive for say, 10 years) but all the family were very sad for them, and very involved n their grief, etc.
5 months ago they had a ds, a lovely little thing. He's a vey good baby, very easy going, a very good sleeper, etc. But all I hear is 'oh god it's so hard, what a challenge, we've finally gone over the hard part, etc etc' And there seems to be major tension in their marriage, etc. my dh went out for a drink with the husband and he said its been really rough on them, really effected their relationship, etc.
TO make matters worse, and another reason why I think I'm not being fully objective, and probably feel vey annoyed about this, is that a much loved and darling mutual friend, had a beautiful baby girl at the time of this girls miscarriage and said baby girl was practically ignored ie. didn't come to visit for about 8 months, because they were going through their pain of misscarriage. (They live in same town!) Turns out said beautiful girl 's mother had a really horrific time in hospital, before and and labour, but apparently it was nothing to this pain of what they were going through. Maybe fertility issues give you total tunnel vision please enlighten me, I mean that in a sympathetically way. All other friends, family members, called to hospital etc, but said misscarriage couple didn't even acknowledge it. I know there's a lot of resentment between said mother of misscarriage and mother of beautiful baby. Esp as a few issues with this baby still, development wise, etc.
Sorry for annoying post but have had a glass of wine and should have given names to characters in story!
I know posters will saying something like 'are people with fertility problems not entitled to talk about the difficulties of parenthood!' Of course they are, but we've all been there! My first dd had a potentially serious illness when born, turned it ok in end thank god, we also have Dtwins, not easy either, so if I'm honest, bit cheesed off with the moaning and 'woe is me' crap from those who finally have the much wanted healthy child in the end!! Who's right? Am I being a total bitch?
(Puttin on helmet, ready for a right pelting, pardon me in advance for and irrational ranting!)
I see you have been back to YWBU about the complaining about a much wanted baby. To be fair, everyone has their limit when it comes to whining even if it is justified whining, I can't imagine that I was a pleasant person to be around when I've been in the throes of exhausted self centered self pity. I'm shocked that I Have friends left to listen to me whine tbh. You're not a rotten person for having less patience the more you hear it, that's human nature IMHO.
However, the thing that made my stomach sink when I read your OP was referring to these people as "the miscarriage couple" and "mother of miscarriage" whilst your other friend was "mother of beautiful baby". I've never had a miscarriage, but I can only imagine how hurtful it would be to someone who has to be referred to in such a way.
I know it can be difficult trying to support a friend through a hard time, especially when they appear to be very "me me me". It doesn't seem to me that you even like this couple enough to try, just from the language you use about them. I'm not sure this friendship has any mileage in it.
Moreover to what has already been said, I think it's perfectly reasonable that the couple in question did not respond to calls TO THE HOSPITAL after the miscarriage. I can only imagine but I would've felt very hounded in their place no matter how well intentioned the calls were. Surely there was time after they left the hospital to acknowledge the bereavement.
BramStoker ... Did the mother of the little girl understand that your mutual friend would have found it too difficult to visit. Just that this past is from your opinion and you haven't mentioned her view on it. I would have thought (and hoped) she would have understood.
Initially I thought you meant that EVERYONE ignored this new baby but reread and realized she had a lot of support from family and other friends.
Sometimes it's best not to 'fight other people's battles' or get offended on other people's behalf. What you think they feel, and what they actually feel may be two seperate things.
I think it wasn't the best decision ever to post this here, but agree with posters above that posts like this can be really helpful in educating people and opening people's eyes to things, and I also think it was very big of you to come back, apologize and admit that your OP was unreasonable!
Just a quick reminder of our talk guidelines as some posters appear to have forgotten.
Comment on the post, not the poster.
op dosent deserve the bashing she's getting way OTT
I know this has moved on, but from your OP it doesn't seem that "Miscarriage Couple" (wincing on your behalf) actually appreciate the baby they do have very much. YANBU to find that distasteful in any circumstances.
Any trauma - miscarriage or birth trauma - can mean the person absolutely can't be around pregnant ladies, babies, baby talk, children, baby shops, groups of women who might start talking about babies, breastfeeding women, relatives / friends bringing news of other people's pregnancies or babies... The list goes on. I've experienced this, thankfully I had sympathetic, sensitive friends and a good therapist. Anyone who wasn't sensitive I literally avoided including a pregnant friend.
I hope your other mutual friend can appreciate this too and be very gracious and forgiving of the lady who had the babies die and now is struggling with the life changes of a live baby.
I think what you're feeling is an understatedable initial human reaction, almost as though you'd told her it'd be hard and she didn't listen. But now you need to rise above it and treat her as though you really love her.
You lost me when you said that everyone was 'involved in their grief etc' ETC???? You sound so dismissive of what they have gone through. You really can have no idea.
And only a child's mother has the right to claim it as an 'easy' child. Am I right I'm thinking you aren't a parent?
Do all the friends in this saga a big favour by just butting out and saying nothing.
I'm glad you feel ashamed of the OP, OP ( note, criticising post not poster).
Unfortunately, I can't un-see your original post. Too many offensive things to list.
I remember hearing a tragic story of a woman who had her baby after years of fertility treatment, suffered pps and committed suicide. How dare she find life hard with a much-wanted baby, eh?
YABU just because you described a baby as, 'vey good baby'.
All babies are good.
No babies are bad
I have to say that if a close friend avoided me or our new baby because she was having fertility problems, it would really hurt. I'd definitely not show much enthusiasm if she did fall pregnant and expect me to be excited for her. So yes, the OP's friend should understand but that doesn't make it any less hurtful and I think she would be within her rights to avoid the person drawing OP's ire and not be expected to help out.
I think I know what you're getting at and you're brave for saying it even if you are BU lol.
I have secondary infertility ( since my dd was 12 months old) so that's my 'excuse' for being a bit miffed (even though I know its unfair and i shouldn't be) when new parents moan about the hardships of parenthood. I'd do anything for one of those sleepless nights right now believe me. I remind myself that my pain doesn't mean that others don't find it difficult and I wouldn't dream of being rude to anyone about it. I also have a close friend who's ds died at just a few months old and I know she struggles with this too.
Equally i have a friend who suffered the horror of a still birth and actively hates all pregnant women and new mothers who even suggest they are having a tough time, despite the fact that she is now expecting again and 'having a tough time' IYKWIM
All I can say is that grief effects everyone differently and maybe that's why she is struggling with your other friend with beautiful baby.
Obviously YABU because no amount of pain or fight to get a baby negates the struggle of the first year, but i think you're commenting on the irony of it all more than anything else no?
I had a decade of crap. Illness, fertility issues, miscarriages, an ectopic pregnancy, more fertility issues, surgery and illness and then IVF. In the middle of it all I had DC1, who is lovely and I found it relatively easy to adjust to becoming a parent. I smiled through everything, put on a brave face and got on with everything that was thrown at me.
However, when I got pregnant with DC2 by IVF, I wobbled. By the time he was born, I felt broken. I simply couldn't cope with trying to function let alone put a brave face on things and make other people feel comfy. I think I was simply overloaded and very vulnerable to depression.
I think if someone tells you that they are struggling and that their relationship is suffering, the kind and generous thing to do is to listen and take their concerns seriously. If you dismiss their worries, they may not confide in anyone next time - and that is a very sad, lonely place to be.
Actually, avoiding a friend and her new baby for 8 months (!) because of your own fertility concerns is not really acceptable. I speak as someone who had both a mc and a very serious ectopic pg before conceiving.
I would never have been so wrapped up in my own woes that I couldn't extend a kindness and an interest (even a feigned one) in other people's new babies.
They do sound pretty self-absorbed to me.
I think you just needed to have a rant about their neediness which has obviously been hard on you and the mutual friend at times.
I have had several pregnancies which ended in miscarriage.
I finally had fertility treatment which resulted in my two beautiful children and every day I feel as though I'm hurtling ever closer to a nervous breakdown.
It's the hardest most harrowing time of my life. The pregnancies were horrible and the physical and mental health problems which came along too have just been too much for dh and me.
We have no family support and I know that when I complain people are thinking 'but she was desperate for kids, now she's got them all she does is moan!'
celestialblows I'm sorry that you are feeling bad. It does sound as if you (both perhaps) need to speak to your GP to deal with this properly. From what you have said, it seems to go beyond a friendly ear type of situation.
We had fertility issues. Close friends had babies who we loved, and still do. Didn't stop me crying all the way home in grief. Real, actual grief and loss.
We now have a much wanted and loved dd who is sometimes bloody difficult. In the beginning (due to very traumatic birth, no skin-to-skin etc) I struggled enormously with bf, guilt, emotional responses and didn't say anything toy friends (just to dh) in case any of th responded in the way you have. Eventually, I did share. Turns out, they are ACTUALLY FRIENDS.
Wow. This post has made me cry.
I don't know what to say. Just feel really really sad.
I feel really angry too.
Have read back and glad that OP has seen that she was really unfair to her friends.
Good ol' mumsnet telling people about themselves when they need it!
(have been there!)
Take care OP and enjoy all the newborns in your life, i hope you get loads of lovely cuddles!
YABU. really U. Babies are hard whatever the circumstances of their conception. I think for people who have had a long slog to get their baby, it must be even harder in a way as they have had a long time and a lot of anticipation, building up how wonderful their life is going to be with a new arrival. Although their lives will of course be enriched, it can be a real crash down to earth when the colicy, crying, difficult feeder, bad sleeper arrives. This has been the case for a friend of mine who underwent IVF, and only now her DD is 10 months is she starting to enjoy her.
I usually avoid AIBU but I had to jump in. Luckily I "followed the rules" & read the thread first so saw the second post by the op.
It can be quite surprising how much of a shock a new baby can be. I couldn't have a biological baby at all but did become mum to a newborn via f*ster care. I wanted that baby so much & very quickly loved him with every fibre of my being but when I was pacing the floor every evening with a screaming baby in my arms I would sometimes think to myself....what have I done ? I felt that I could never voice anything negative to anyone as this baby was so wanted I was suppose to be blissfully happy every moment. It can be a difficult position.
I am angry that HQ deleted my post. I appreciate the OP apologised and yes of course we all have irrational even spiteful thoughts at times.
BUT to post them on a public forum which includes women coping with miscarriage and PND was at best thoughtless and at worst plain unempathetic.
I am not calling names or using offensive language. I have seen much worse which hasn't been deleted.
Do you know i've just re read the OP and I am still shocked at how awful it sounds. I am sad for my friends who have been through the pain of fertility problems or miscarriage, that anyone would publically declare such stuff.
You have not been flamed unfairly but maybe you have learnt from this. I hope so.
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