to think Thatcher's funeral procession will attract protesters throughout UK?(294 Posts)
Strikes me they're really pushing it with a full military fanfare and procession through the streets of London - it's catnip for every pissed off Briton in the country to come and have a go.
The last people who had this amount of fuss were Queen Mum and Diana, neither of whom exactly attracted violent dissent. But a parade through virtually every main thoroughfare of the capital for Mrs Thatcher...
There's been quite a few articles in various newspapers giving the hard facts about MTs reign, I think both sides are creating myths of their own.
That said I think this whole funeral is OTT and in bad taste, and will cause the Tories quite a lot of damage.
It seems to be quietly and conveniently forgotten that 264 pits closed between 1957 and 1963. Under Harold Wilson one pit closed every week.
1969 was the last year when coal accounted for more than half of Britains energy consumption. By 1970, when the Conservatives were elected, there were just 300 pits left a fall of two thirds in 25 years.
She was our to date only female PM and one of our longest serving. It is right that she has a full ceremonial funeral.
I'll second that edam.
Us anti- apartheid protestors were definitely made out to be bad 'uns.
We were called rent a mob back then, and treated as 'subversives'.
Yeah, right, the backpedalling re. apartheid is astonishing. She spoke out against sanctions, Denis was doing business with the apartheid regime, and the charming Young Conservatives used to sing 'Hang Nelson Mandela' at party conferences (to the tune of Free Nelson Mandela). Tories poured scorn on anyone suggesting sports teams should NOT tour S Africa, objected to boycotts of S African produce and the police were hostile to those of us who protested outside S Africa House.
I heard somebody say on a TV programme this morning that it's a celebration of the ruling classes. Never a truer word said. It's all about a display of power. Very bad I think.
According the "The Independent", Thatcher didn't call Mandela a terrorist.
She called Nelson Mandela a 'terrorist'
We have searched the record and spoken to one of her most recent biographers and can find no such comment. She did say, in answer to a question at a press conference at the 1987 Commonwealth Summit in Vancouver on reports that the ANC said they would target British firms: "This shows what a typical terrorist organisation it is." Also, she did not, as frequently maintained, say: "Anyone who thinks the ANC is going to run the government in South Africa is living in cloud-cuckoo land." This is a misquoting of her spokesman, Bernard Ingham, who, when asked if the ANC might overthrow the white South African regime by force, replied: "It is cloud-cuckoo land for anyone to believe that could be done." There are plentiful records of Thatcher condemning apartheid; as far back as 1961 she was proposing a bill of rights for newly independent Commonwealth countries; and her government's efforts in lobbying for Mandela's release were crucial.
I supsect something may happen, the older generation is more engaged and more organised, the younger more disenfranchised, so between them...
Why thank-you Dawndonna, you are welcome anytime! Do you think these jungle drums about an further "party" on Saturday night will actually come to anything?
A few friends and business colleagues have been advised to close early on Saturday, I really hope it's not going to turn into a bloodbath.(this in both central and South London btw)
I'm a South Londoner, but moved away many years ago. I shall drink tea in solidarity!
doubleshotespresso yep another tea glugging south Londoner here too!
This Mummy ain't yummy!
Pan: Fair enough, I was 17 when the war was going on and not what you'd call politically astute. I mentioned it merely as a suggested reason for why Thatcher is supposed to be getting a bigger deal of a funeral than Heath, or Wilson or other former prime ministers who have died in the last 10/15 years.
Pan - to be fair, the whole mess that is Falklands and the big mistakes the Argintinans made (stupidly invading, effectively requiring some sort of response from the UK when they already knew if they had just done nothing for another 5-10 years they'd have been handed them without any loss of life) is a thread all by itself...
But yes, that's the excuse for the full funeral hoo ha.
amberleaf I'm in south London but will be staying home too! Drinking tea probably......and didn't know sipping latte was exclusive to Islington! I must update myself on the daft stereotypes on here......
yes, SGB, but that isn;t the full story is it? The British govt had been trying to negotiate their way out of the Falklands for decades. It was more bother than it was worth.
<incidentally, it was never a 'war', it was an armed conflict, as the Tories would have been shown to have not met the basic requirements for a 'war' under the 2nd WW inspired Geneva Convention. So yes the fb ref. is not credible.>
I did read something on Facebook earlier (so may not be true) that the reason for the big-deal funeral is actually because she was a prime minister who won a war while in office (ie the Falklands) and hence the military aspect of the tribute.
If that's true I sort of agree, but then I did support that war, on the grounds that the Falkland Islanders were British subjects with the right to appeal to the UK when they were invaded.
Link is up on chat as well - I have been sat here in my kitchen for over an hour waiting for daughter to return home and shucks - no Eastenders tonight so I have been on MN!
I disagree Dontmindifido There are a lot of people where I live comparing Maggie Thatcher's policies then with Cameron's today and getting rather cross about it all. As if they were not cross enough about the cuts to begin with, this is only adding fuel to their opinion that it happened then, it is happening again now.
In the cafe today where I go for my coffee - this is a little cafe - Oh okay, it was a truck stop, but they do nice takeaway coffee! There were people who were walking their dogs in the woods there and they go get coffee and bacon sarnies after - they were discussing how she sold off the social housing then for Tory's to return back to power and start to charge those lucky enough to be in a council house extra tax for a boxroom when they have nowhere else to move to as all the social housing has been sold off. It got quite heated, I was surprised as normally these are gentle folk who brave the cold to walk Gypsie or Ralph or whatever their dog's name is.
The fact everybody is talking about her now at a time where cuts in benefits are rife and actual benefit claimants not only have to wade through mud to claim anything at all but also get rotten fruit thrown at them by the general public for being a terrible scourge on society for daring to need benefit help in the first place - its not going down well here at all but then we are Welsh and the Tory's did hurt us badly. Its just that - I have heard people who normally are very accommodating and gentle speaking really, begin to get quite rattled and blunt and dare I say it, nasty about it all and it has got worse here since they announced the death and funeral of Ms T....
Thankyou for the link boom.
I love Glenda Jackson. I grew up watching her films on tv and admire her as a politician.
It is someone like her who inspires me not someone like Thatcher.
SGB - i think you are right, I also think they are enjoying the distraction for the left's anger over the cuts. the narrative of any protests and the media coverage is the anger at what Thatcher did all those years ago. If not, then there was always the chance this summer there would be protests over the cuts - that would be a direct challenge to the current government's policies. This will (hopefully for them) diffuse the anger at the cuts, making any protests being centred on old policies they have nothing to do with.
No one is talking about bedroom tax, universal credit, disability benefit changes anymore. We're all busy talking about a woman who left centre stage 23 years ago.
May I just say that the 3,500 pounds (my pound sign on laptop is broken!) Mp's can claim to go today to debate the passing of M Thatcher - I would like it all to go to Glenda Jackson. Please. Every penny of it... Outstanding she was - outstanding.
I still don't want to see riots at a funeral but the above was simply a class act and the way to do it if you want to object to Ms Thatcher...
Applause for Glenda Jackson.
I agree Solid. If anyone protests they will say it was mainly poor/low waged/unemployed people who were protesting and use it against them in propaganda like they did with the Philpott case only one week ago.
Sorry chris you're rambling again, with respect. SA and Zimbabwei are two quite different countries - differing political structures, different histories, differing wealth, differing ethnic make-ups. I'm afraid you haven't got past the fear thing to justify supporting racism, which MT did support.
I do actually rather suspect that Cameron and co are gagging for a few riots on the day of the funeral, hence the fact that they are making such a big deal out of it. They want an excuse to demonize the poor even further and quite probably to bring in some additional repressive laws to keep the unwashed feral scum in their place.
A Marxist govt in Pretoria was never, ever a likelihood. Even IF it was, SA would have been a democracy and so chose it's path of self-determination?
As for the second part, never heard the phrase "One man, one vote, once?" That describes what happened in half the world after de-colonialisation. How do you think today's Zimbabweans would feel to be told that everything's OK with their country because Mugabe was fairly elected 30-odd years ago?
Apart from Botswana, what other African countries were acceptably democratic and well-governed at the time Thatcher was in power? (I'm using "democratic" as the antithesis of communist because that's how things worked.)
(Apologies for any incoherence in this post, 3-year nagging me to play with her, I'm off.)
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