To be raging at Dispatches "rich and on benefits"

(476 Posts)
crashdoll Mon 18-Mar-13 20:10:14

It's talking about pensioners and all they get from the welfare state regardless of income or savings. Cue clip of David Scameron saying he won't touch their benefits.

HintofBream Mon 18-Mar-13 20:32:30

Crashdoll, the cold weather payment is not a universal pensioners' benefit. Only those on income support or similar receive it. Youthecat , you are right about the withdrawal of other benefits hitting only the middle and lower end. As you age you start needing a whole host of medicines, and paying for these would be very hard on many pensioners.

My parents rage about it and they live in South Africa. There is a type of person who has manged to blag a big property overseas and with the exchange rate are able to live the good life and still claim benefits paid for by the UK tax payers.

MrsKoala Mon 18-Mar-13 20:33:19

yes timid. when my parents tell me they've put in the pot, i tell them they've used it! all the operations they've had (obviously necessary), education of their children, subsidised travel etc. I don't begridge this, but they seem to think they've still got money in the pot left over - i don't think so!

and yes i agree youthecat they should take peoples homes - if you mean council houses which are far too big or people paying for their care.

Corygal Mon 18-Mar-13 20:33:44

I agree with timid viper - this 'I earned it' drives me nuts. No, plenty of you sat on your arse while your house made you a million quid.

crashdoll Mon 18-Mar-13 20:35:27

HintofBream Why can't prescription charges be means tested like they are for younger adults too? I pay a fortune and my grandpa in his £1.5 million home gets his for free.

Domjolly Mon 18-Mar-13 20:38:04

Yes i sure my gil didnt want this programme shown he is very very well off amd even claims for a free bus pass but drives FFS ne say you never know when i might need to jump on a bus

crashdoll Mon 18-Mar-13 20:38:09

Clouds The fact that you think every pensioner has put into the pot is laughable. We are in a serious financial crisis. We are cutting back everywhere, why should pensioners be exempt?

MrsKoala Mon 18-Mar-13 20:40:49

i've put in the pot too, and so has dh, but we don't get child benefit (which is fine) - but why is it okay to take one universal benefit and means test it and not do it to all of them?

CloudsAndTrees Mon 18-Mar-13 20:40:55

I don't think every pensioner has paid into the pot. But the ones that haven't should suffer the consequences of that while they are younger and still have the opportunity to do something about it. I don't think it's fair to target older people that can't do anything to increase their income.

sneezecakesmum Mon 18-Mar-13 20:41:10

Pensioners do have their income taxed like everyone else and many (like me) provide free valuable child care, but I agree its ridiculous for people in Cyprus to get a winter fuel allowance! Means testing should come into in provided its not a case of taking off pensioners who are just comfortable and leaving them struggling to heat their homes, which is what I could see happening.

Wealthy parents who get child benefit with a joint income of £80K are taking the piss frankly!

charlottehere Mon 18-Mar-13 20:41:34

PIL get a top of the range new car every 6 months think, BMW, lexus and have a second new car too but still claim their free bus passes. Taking the piss..

MrsKoala Mon 18-Mar-13 20:41:47

i've just phoned my parents and ranted grin

crashdoll Mon 18-Mar-13 20:42:43

What about disabled people who can't work to increase their income? Nope, don't care about them. Slash slash, abolish DLA, make PiP rules ridiculous, give ATOS another huge contract.

Orwellian Mon 18-Mar-13 20:43:04

Ok, well firstly, most pensioners worked all their lives and paid their tax and NI which would run into thousands. Secondly, the state pension is £104.75 a week which is £5447 per year. They could also possibly get up to £300 as Winter fuel allowance.

So, a pensioner who has worked for 40+ years and paid in thousands in tax and NI gets a) a pension from the state and b) winter fuel allowance which adds up to £5777 (if you say the winter fuel allowance is at the most £300). These are the two basic benefits that only pensioners get.

On the other hand, there are millions of people who haven't paid a penny into the system and have never worked or worked sporadically who are entitled to housing benefit/LHA (running into the thousands per month), jobseekers allowance, income support, child benefit, child tax credits, disability benefits, subsidised travel, subsidised childcare/nursery, free prescriptions, free school meals, free NHS treatment, mobility cars, social homes...the list goes on.

Why are you aggrieved by a few pensioners getting something back when most of them are not rich and have paid thousands into the system when there are literally millions of people who have never paid anything in or paid in very little, taking billions out of the pot?

CloudsAndTrees Mon 18-Mar-13 20:43:10

Personally, I don't think it was ok to take that universal benefit and means test it. I'm strongly in favour of universal benefits. I don't understand why so many people want everything to be means tested, it is not right that the only people who can expect help from their government are the ones that pay in the least.

landofsoapandglory Mon 18-Mar-13 20:43:50

I have been raging about this for years as well.

All this "they paid in" is bollocks! It is not a frigging savings account. Did they not have their children educated, have they not used hospitals, libraries, the police, fire service, bin men, the roads, etc etc?

My DLA is on the line, PIL went out and bought a £7.5k sofa, on the way back they saw a £22k car they fancied so they bought it, cash! They really need help help with their heating bills, don't they?

Gideon was saying something yesterday on the Andrew Marr show, about bringing in the new, more generous flat rate pension sooner than planned to help those " who had done the right thing"! 'Cos I went out and got disabled on purpose, me! And the man who empties his bins who can't afford to,save deserves fuck all!

All in this together, my arse!

Procrastinating Mon 18-Mar-13 20:44:02

I'm told they "paid in" so deserve every penny and bollocks to everyone else. I get this lecture from my father, as opposed to the free child care.

I would like to know what I will get for all the money I have "paid in".

infamouspoo Mon 18-Mar-13 20:44:16

I think it should be means tested. My mum lives on pension tax credit of £110 per week so of course gets winter fuel allowance etc. My inlaws are on a combined pension of 50K, house worth over a million (which they didnt earn) and they get WFA, free bus pass, free scripts etc etc
No way should they be treated the same.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 18-Mar-13 20:44:17

I don't say that crashdoll. hmm

I don't agree with disability payments being cut.

BreasticlesNTesticles Mon 18-Mar-13 20:44:51

If you get a state pension you have paid enough over the years in national insurance to qualify.

As an aside, it is often the lowest paid that don't earn enough on a weekly basis to get their NI "stamp" and so don't receive a state pension.

If pensioners were to be charged on prescriptions for example, then shouldn't under 16's as well if their parents earn over a certain amount?

HintofBream Mon 18-Mar-13 20:45:58

There is a weird double standard here. If anyone suggests that benefits should not exceed the average wage or suggests some of those receiving benefits should not do so, they get thoroughly pasted. it is however seemingly OK to bash pensioners.

soverylucky Mon 18-Mar-13 20:46:07

My parents in law are a classic example of what is wrong with some of these benefits. They are in their mid 60's. They were educated to degree level for free. They then both worked - MIL gave up her job to be a SAHM. When dh was at school she returned to work on a part time basis. FIL was able to retire from a job in the public sector at 55. That was 33 years of employment. MIL retired at 60. They were able to purchase a large, comfortable family home on one income that tbh wasn't massive but the house prices in the early 80's were much more in keeping with earnings. Both benefit form free bus passes and free prescriptions. It annoys me when they don't see how lucky they have been. Dh and I will retire at 67. We started full time work at 21. That is 46 years of work! We live in a crap house in a rubbish part of town because it is all we can afford despite earning a fairly decent amount compared to some. We only finished paying student loans in the last couple of years. We were lucky in that we didn't have to pay tuition fees. I feel sorry for those who are just a few years younger than us. They have got it even worse.

charlottehere Mon 18-Mar-13 20:46:15

I don't get they paid in....they almost certainly used more than they put in.

Procrastinating Mon 18-Mar-13 20:46:58

Where I live 'most' pensioners have not worked all their lives. Men worked, wives stayed at home generally.

crashdoll Mon 18-Mar-13 20:47:53

Clouds I know you didn't say that but that's what the government has all but said. Also you said *"it is not right that the only people who can expect help from their government are the ones that pay in the least." but these are the vulnerable of society; elderly people, children, disabled people. There is a safety net for others, not enough I grant you but it is there.

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