ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
to ask why you would put your 'hungry baby' on a diet?(95 Posts)
I don't understand the logic...please help me out.
Hungry baby milk has the same calories per 100 grams as normal, but takes longer to digest....or in other words hungry baby formula is a diet food....it makes the baby feel full longer and hence reduces their daily calorie intake, by reducing the number of feeds.
Similarly with introducing solids. Mashed potato or whatever has about the same calories per 100g but they are almost impossible to digest. Again the baby feels full longer but gets less calories in a day because they will ask for less feeds.
So would you respond to thinking your baby is hungry by:
a) feeding them more often so they get more calories
b) feeding them diet food, so they get less calories
The difference between breastfeeding and formula feeding is that breasts don't have a full/empty dial on them so it is difficult to know how much the baby is getting.
As a result if the baby eats less than usual you don't realise and so don't try and encourage them to have a bit more.
As an obsessive type breastfeeding was a relief as otherwise I would have been recording every last sip and worrying about it.
Oh god, it a 3 in 1.
A chance for everyone to talk about how their chosen baby nourishing method is superior, a chance to talk about weaning and an added fatty bashing element for good measure*
As a new born you expect to be feeding frequently but usually it settles down. Is it really seen as normal to be feeding 3/4/5 month old ff babies every two hours day and night? Being bloated from so much milk can't be good for them. If there's something out there that helps regulate the feeds a bit then great! Didn't work for mine had opposite effect but I gather that for some it does work. It's all very well saying just feed just feed but people have to go back to work at some point. Is it normal to find childminders and nursery to constantly feed babies of that age two hourly the whole time when they have other babies to look after. ?
Very well said Piglet - beautifully explained!
Also the HBM I use does have a higher calorie content in it that non.
I really had no idea about hungry baby milk when I ff DD2 after bf for 3 months. I did wonder about trying it, but didn't bother in the end. When she was drinking several full bottles of no 1 formula a day and still wanting more, I just started solids, at about 4 months, and she nearly gummed my arm off, as well as the spoon, etc.
The last feed at night I use HBM, it has worked well for us and we all get more sleep, I am questioning it but will continue until weaning.
Nah it is definitely a not at all veiled potato bashing thread....it surprises me that almost no-one has noticed that....
breathing and Jessie both really interesting posts. It does seem likely that you can break the self regulation by either forcing a toddler to finish a plate or by artificially stimulating the suck swallow reflex....<has also been tempted to force in a little more expressed milk into ungrateful so-and-so of a daughter.>
It is odd that some babies will leave a half full bottle of milk but others wont.
Aaah a thinly-veiled formula feeder bash thread... let's play to all the usual conceptions.
The world would be a lot nicer a place if people stopped passive-aggressive fake "wondering why" about what other parents did and concentrated on their own parenting.
i used hungry baby formula at around 3 months because LO was feeding none stop during the day and waking every 45 minutes for a feed in the night - it did make a huge difference and LO was instantly a lot more content. We actually went an hour between feed during the day and he sttn or woke up just once.
Regarding the current discussion, if you are bottle-feeding an infant of any age, I would imagine that there could be a temptation to force that last 5ml or 25ml down the baby, whether it's EBM which took hours to produce, or expensive formula.
But I am, of course, extrapolating from myself.
Someone earlier on asked about the saying that one can't over feed a breast fed baby, and whether it was possible to over-feed with formula.
This is, and isn't, true. It's not about the milk, it's actually about the feeding mechanism! Making a tiny, low birthweight newborn, that just wants to sleep, latch on is very, very difficult! (Especially if YOU are a first-time breastfeeder; if I ever have a tiny sleepy lbw baby again, latching on will be much easier!) Thank goodness for formula, and bottles and teats.
However, you can manage to get the vital milk (formula, expressed breast milk) in with a teat, because you can just push the teat in and THEN you can jiggle the teat around until you stimulate the sucking reflex, and you can keep doing this until the bottle is gone. (Unless you have darling twin 2, who would refuse the rest of the bottle and would manage to defeat experienced midwives by day 10 or so ).
I understand that the composition of breast milk changes through the feed, so a little and often feeder would get slightly different milk to an every 4 hours feeder. I speculate that since formula doesn't have this quality some babies will over feed (the ones that take so much they vomit) and shifting the composition of formula can help them to feel full sooner. Babies can also drain a bottle faster than they could BF the same volume of milk and with little effort on their part, so some will drain the bottle before they have had any feelings of their appetite being sated
DD was demand formula fed, but she rarely drained a bottle and never clamoured for more than the recommended amount. As a toddler she loves protein and mostly doesn't ask for snacks between meals, probably because protein tends to make you feel full for longer, like hungry baby milk.
I am not really confident that all babies can self regulate. Anecdotally I have known some very heavy demand fed EBF babies. Also toddlers are not all self regulating by a long way and it seems odd that we think they ate up to a certain age and then lose the ability.
decided to have a look and found a 2009 study that concludes:
"Infants who are bottle-fed in early infancy are more likely to empty the bottle or cup in late infancy than those who are fed directly at the breast. Bottle-feeding, regardless of the type of milk, is distinct from feeding at the breast in its effect on infants' self-regulation of milk intake."
So nothing FF bashing about it...just that bottle feeding (either BM or FM) apparently removes some ability to self-regulate in some babies....
argh! I really wasn't even in passing trying to blame obesity on FF! I just thought it was possible the mode of delivery ie with on demand not being pushed in the case of FF might be influencing things....
The whole point of kids and their calorie compensation mechanism is that it doesn't matter what you feed them as long as you don't push food on them or restrict their intake yourself...oh and they have a fighting chance to register full ie no fizzy drinks etc.
I think I only heard FF to obesity link on MN so I really shouldn't have given it credit in the first place
I think obesity in children is more to do with the shit they're fed, rather than the milk they had as babies.
My 3 were breast fed. 1st one for 12 months, 2nd for 6 & my 3rd is in the process of being switched over because I am finding it very difficult (despite my experience)
Anyway fact is that my two older children are tall and slim. I don't feed them junk (only as a treat now and then) & they are both active. We have scooters, bikes and a trampoline. They swim once a week and walk too and from school every day.
Links with obesity were discredited,not surprised really considering people often bf/ff differently and often do both,at the end of the day if you eat pies and don't exercise you'll get fat regardless of how you were fed.
polka but surely BF mothers do snacking too....I was trying to understand why FF is associated with more than average childhood obesity problems...and wondering if it the fact that FF is less likely (apparently according to this thread) to be given on demand.
No Icb it's the snack culture and I suspect,crap food and a sedentary lifestyle.
Mothers constantly handing out snacks all through the day can't be good.The snacking thing is relatively new.
formula is harder for a babys digestive system to digest,so im guessing hbm just has more of the bit they find hard to digest?(which is why bf babies feed more as they digest it quicker)
pilgit thats what I said in the OP simply rephrased. It doesn't address the issue of whether or not a baby demanding more milk is A) correct and needs more calories B) greedy and in need of being put on a diet.
Everything I have read about post weaning toddler nutrition says that you should feed them when they are hungry and not force food on them when they are not. This enables the child to maintain their inbuilt calorie counter in good nick and reduces levels of obesity later in childhood.
I am not getting why that shouldn't still be the case for babies on milk. It is for BF babies...you feed on demand. Why should it not be FF? Is there some magic ingredient that stops babies recognising then they are full on FM? IT would appear to have basically the same calorie density as BM?
I wonder if it is actually this practise of not feeding FF babies when they 'demand' that is correlated with increases in childhood obesity, and actually nothing to do with the FM itself.... <ponders>
Thumbs up to Pilgit for explaining it v. well
Sorry,, Evil Satan mother here!! My babies (twins) where on hungry baby formula - (the one I used had more calories than the non.) for 11pm feeds from around 3 months and I started introducing solid food at 4 months. it must be the dark magic i use that makes them such beautiful healthy bright children today . i can say though that appart from the cold or teething issues I slept well and appolgise to no one for that
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