ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
to ask for an elective ceseran even though theres no reason i cant have a normal delivery?(178 Posts)
There's absolutely no medical reason that I couldn't give birth. I have a wonderful almost 4yo DD and had a pretty good delivery with her.
However, this time round I'm terrified, not of the pain but of something happening to be during labour or birth.
I keep having nightmares about dying and leave my beautiful DD without a mum. It's really starting to get to me and its just making me miserable. I keep trying to forget about it and enjoy my pregnancy and DD but it's starting to consume me.
Tried talking to Dp and he thinks I'm being silly.
I agree with you Hazy, its important I think for as many stories to be shared as possible, so people can get the more realistic picture across the board.
I remember Amanda Holdens ELC experience when she nearly died and I read somewhere they were biking in blood for her.
Before my ELC I asked the consultant whether they had enough of my blood in the hospital should the same thing happen.
Yes one of the ladies I am talking about, her baby had to go into some sort of unit, he had a traumatic delivery.
Shag If I had been asking her about induction - she may have given an opinion on that too. I merely mentioned I was caught between a rock and a hard place, she gave me her feelings on HB and on ELC. She herself had hemoragged during labour.
Op has already had a baby by VB and feels afraid, its not the unkown to her, nor was it the un known to me.
When she made the comment about HB being " horrendous" if it goes wrong, I dont think she was taking into account stats. Just her feelings at attending a lady in labour - when its going wrong."
Oddly, I've never heard of a midwife tell a woman who's being induced how awful it is when it results in a 30 hour labour followed by a crash c/s under g/a, despite the fact that all midwives know that number of inductions will pan out like this.
I agree though that we tend to make decisions about these things based on gut feeling and fear. Shame really that the facts don't have more bearing on the decision making process when it comes to birth.
You ate right, unfortunately you can't know with birth until it actually happens!
But, I read a lot of threads on here before having ds, with lots of very positive experiences of electives, and that is great, but I just feel, after my experience, when I see a thread like this that I want to point out that there are unoredictable things that can happen. Seeing a surgeon with a look of panic on his face, whilst ou are lying there is not something I was prepared for!
When I say about not holding ds, I mean because of his breathing difficulties, meaning he was in nicu in an incubator. I aalso think it is important to point out that there is a higher incidence of respiratory distress in babies born by elcs.
"I had 3rd and 2nd degree tears with complications with dd1 and 2, honestly, they were nothing compared to how I felt after an elcs."
Again, its something that is so hard to quanitfy, the ladies who I know who had sections for various reasons 1st time, really wanted to experience birth second time round and both were severly dissapointed and upset with thier choices and they have major on going problems, they too couldnt hold thier babies.
Its so hard because you have to know yourself really really well and its not easy to sort of try it and then decide.
Like Gas and Air, you are always told its there etc - but you only know how it will make you feel when you try it! HOrrible being in labour then the G &A is making you sick - same as pethadine.
What I meant Hazy Jane is - I felt there was a more manageable range of problems that might occur with a section than being mid labour.
Op has been through labour - so she knows what that is like. If/when she looks at sections - its down to which set of risks and how she would rather take.
As said before - I would have rathered something went wrong mid section - than mid labour - personally so that was the risk I was prepared to take.
Some people have felt more pain than others after surgery, most people I have spoken too - have not felt pain too badly after a section.
I think the MW was just making a personal comment on how she felt obvisouly after witnessing home births that went wrong.
When she made the comment about HB being " horrendous" if it goes wrong, I dont think she was taking into account stats. Just her feelings at attending a lady in labour - when its going wrong.
Persoanlly I think a HB going well would be wonderful, I wish I had been brave enough to try it - as I am sure I would have been a good candiate for it - and been allowed to do it.
But that is how I feel. So its down to how OP feels, rather than going through stats etc...it doesnt make much difference when you are afraid.
"But you'd also need to control for the fact that, even when only multiparous women are considered, generally those choosing homebirth would have a lower risk profile than those who don't."
The women in the Place of Birth study were matched for risk factors.
"The 'extra' deaths and injuries in hospital, the ones that match the percentage of babies who are injured or die at homebirth, could all be due to women who were previously low risk and then give birth very early (it happens)."
Well, the Place of Birth study 2011, which my figures come from, only uses data from women categorised as 'low risk' at the start of labour. So women who've gone into labour early would have been excluded from the study.
Would you rather being unable to sit down for weeks or be tender in your lower abdomen.For alot of women its the totally un predictable nature of labour which is scary.
I had 3rd and 2nd degree tears with complications with dd1 and 2, honestly, they were nothing compared to how I felt after an elcs. Tender would be the understatement of the century! And that was with morphine.
I also could not in any way predict how I would feel after my cs, I couldn't predict that I would vomit and shake for hours afterwards, that my ds would be unable to feed and struggle to breathe, and that I wouldn't be able to hold him.
What I mean is- Shagmund you're saying that if death rates for multiparous are similar and some HB babies die or are injured due to lack of immediate medical attention, one would expect hospital morbidity and mortality rates to be lower to reflect that, and the fact that they aren't means there are deaths caused by being in hospital. But that might not be true. It's not the only possible explanation. The 'extra' deaths and injuries in hospital, the ones that match the percentage of babies who are injured or die at homebirth, could all be due to women who were previously low risk and then give birth very early (it happens). Or, that might only explain part of it. There are various possibilities.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
It sounds like we agree on some points Shagmund. The most recent UK Birthplace study did show that there's a higher neonatal mortality rate for home birth amongst first timers, even with quite a high transfer rate, but I've never seen anything suggesting future deliveries are more risky.
It's not necessarily the case that some additional injuries and deaths are caused by being in hospital, though. Could be. But you'd also need to control for the fact that, even when only multiparous women are considered, generally those choosing homebirth would have a lower risk profile than those who don't. Also, obviously babies who are born very early sadly have a higher death rate than those who go to term, and generally if you go into labour at 27 weeks you're probably going to go to hospital even if you'd wanted a homebirth. That's not to say you're necessarily wrong, just that you'd need to consider other things too.
"Yes that's what I'd always heard too, MyDarlingClementine. Home birth is usually fine, especially when risked out properly, and also all the data I've ever seen shows that women rate their experience as much better than hospital. That's very, very firmly established. So if you're lucky enough to get a straightforward birth, it's fantastic, but if the wrong sort of complication happens, you're screwed."
For mums expecting their second or third baby, home birth is no more risky for them or their babies. Even when you include those women whose births become complicated.
You are right that there are some births where the outcome will be worse because of a lack of immediate medical input (for example in the case of a cord prolapse or a severe shoulder dystocia). However, as the over all outcomes are similar for babies born at hospital and at home, I can only assume that someadditional baby injuries and deaths are caused by being in hospital in the first place.
Thinking about it, I'm quite glad NICE decided it was impossible to properly quantify whether VB or CS is cheaper. You know that if they could, we'd all end up pressured to opt for the less expensive one. I much prefer a VB and wouldn't want a CS unless it were medically necessary, so I certainly wouldn't appreciate being pressured to have one if it turned out that on average it would cost £100 less or whatever.
Amber do you understand women are scared that they or their babies may die.
Due two weeks today. First birth vaginal, straightforward although ventouse in the end.
I am now very concerned I will be required to have a c section as baby not in ideal position.
In my opinion, the excitement of not knowing when your baby is going to make his or her arrival is worth is worth a lot in itself and I would be sad to let that go.
Ime people tend to be extremely dismissive of pain, shocking really.
Post operative care is a whole other thread.
Unfortunalty they will say that in a hospital which makes it really hard to know if something else has gone wrong or if it is normal.
They can be dismissive of pain, because they must hear people moaning about it alot.
Oh yes, and the pain was still horrific but apparently all within the realms of 'normal' after major surgery.
Really Valium, did you keep on top of your meds? I personally felt very little pain at all; but I did have lots of meds that I took regulary.
Again I have heard of people sent home on a paracetomol after a section.
I know of one lady who also had another op because of something that happened after her EM CS. Years after something cropped up.
ELC is most certainly not the easy option!
I dont know how many men would have an operation whilst being awake!
For people who fear child birth though, especially those who have had any sort of delivery that makes them feel scared and those who havant had a child but feel afraid - ELC is certianly another option.
Not the easy option, not a pain free option, not even a risk free option.
But another viable way of getting baby out .
What the fuck, Amber?
MyValiumRedhead makes a good point about complications from epidurals and CS too. I heard at my NCT class that the death rate for epidurals is 1 in 100,000- for me, that's safe enough, but if you're the 1 that won't be much consolation!
Yes that's what I'd always heard too, MyDarlingClementine. Home birth is usually fine, especially when risked out properly, and also all the data I've ever seen shows that women rate their experience as much better than hospital. That's very, very firmly established. So if you're lucky enough to get a straightforward birth, it's fantastic, but if the wrong sort of complication happens, you're screwed.
Shagmund the average obstetrician is likely to see a higher percentage of births that go wrong than the average midwife, though. Or to flip it on its head, the average midwife will see more uncomplicated VBs than the average obstetrician. So of course that has an impact. I don't suggest that either group is incorrect, it's totally normal for humans to be more focused on what we've experienced ourselves than the bigger picture. Especially with issues like ELCS and homebirth where the data is, as you say yourself, unclear. Speaking of data, do you have any for the comparable women you mention to the MLU/HB group who gave birth in other settings?
Ooooo thanks for the reminder amber I must re read that book <looks for kindle...>
However, the complication rates for women opting for birth centres are still strikingly lower than for similar mums (ie, same parity, same social class, same obstetric risk criteria) going to an obstetric led unit.
Does this measure anxiety?
This was one major problem with the place of birth study. Just how many of those women were making decisions based on anxieties? And how important is this? As mentioned upthread, is this self selection of some form? Is it necessarily the place of birth thats the entire problem or is it also the fact that women who choose a place of birth also have different levels of anxiety too?
I personally think anxiety needs to be considered a risk factor too. For a number of different reasons. There is evidence out there from both the pro-natural camp and the pro-ELCS camp that seems to suggest that anxiety is hugely important.
There is a theoretical case to be made here that those who have raised levels of anxiety from the word go would be more at risk even when they are in the same place of birth as women who don't have those similar anxieties.
Unless we have proper research done on this, we don't know if this is really the case, but I think its highly possible that this is what you would find.
its just one step closer to life becoming like brave new world by aldous huxley,soon no one will bother giving birth and bringing kids up they will just grow them in a factory and let the government do ti for them.
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