To take ds out of nursery? Really bloody had it today. This is part 2 of previous thread

(54 Posts)
WaynettaSlobsLover Mon 14-Jan-13 19:39:58

You might remember my thread the other day about ds not settling at nursery and the staff making me stay to settle him and the nurserys policy about not caring for kids who haven't settled. Well today I took him and he did the crying and stuff but then went into a room with his keyworker to play, so I left and went to get on with things. Then an hour later I got a phone call: " can you pick up ds now because keyworker says he's had enough." Pretty pissed off so had to go down there in the pissing rain and pick him up. (I don't drive as I mentioned before, but I'm learning) keyworker, lovely as she is, just said "oh well it got a bit much for him and a bit noisy so that was it. We will keep persevering and maybe do an hour tomorrow". As if I have absolutely no plans myself or errands to run, but can easily stay with him to carry on unsuccessfully settling him, toddler in tow that I keep having to pick up and check on despite being pregnant and knackered. I've really had it today and tbh want to pull him out of there.

WaynettaSlobsLover Mon 14-Jan-13 20:35:44

Thanks guys xx and yes I've wondered what their attitude to working mums is as well. Should find one and ask her !

Wallison Mon 14-Jan-13 20:41:51

I would be wary of a nursery that can't settle a child. Doing so is a key part of their job and the service they are providing to you (whether you pay for that yourself or it's funded is immaterial). They are supposed to have care of your child for the hours they are contracted to, not just to give up the ghost and renege on the deal when things get a bit difficult. Also, the received wisdom seems to be not to stay after the drop-off time, because that just unsettles them more, so I don't know why they're doing what they're doing.

MummytoKatie Mon 14-Jan-13 20:49:13

I think my dd is a bit younger than yours (coming on for 3) but we've had lots of difficulty settling her over the years. The most recent problem was last May after we came back from 2 weeks holiday. Nursery's attitude was that she'd never settle while I was there so I was to leave her and then either hide in the staff room or go to work (20 mins away) and phone when I got there and they'd let me know if she was still upset.

She was always fine though. Her favorite carer would cuddle her as much as she wanted, they'd re-jig the plans for the day to do lots of the things she really enjoyed (and they know her well enough to know what these are) and by the end of the day she'd be ok. After a week or so she was fine again.

The only thing is that the ratios for the 2 - 3s room is 1:4 so there were enough staff to be able to do this. I guess if the adult : child ratio is lower (which I think it is in the bigger rooms) then that will be harder.

But I still think that you could find a nursery with more sensible policies so no YWNBU To take him out.

Shelby2010 Mon 14-Jan-13 20:49:47

If DS was happy there before Christmas break & being ill, do you think he now just trying it on IYKWIM? Like you said, he cries & mummy comes running, so it's more a control thing on his part rather than say feeling sick or frightened & actually needing you? You will be the best judge of this, but if you feel it's the nursery not pulling their weight then I would suggest being less available. Eg if they phone, tell them you have to take one of the other dc to the doctors first. Then after an hour or so ring the nursery & ask if he has settled - preferably phoning when it's lunchtime so he's likely to be happily occupied.

Obviously if DS is genuinely unhappy there or you've completely lost confidence in them, then take him out ASAP.

WaynettaSlobsLover Mon 14-Jan-13 20:52:11

Wallison. Yes this seems to crop up time and time again when I speak to others, the whole staying after drop off time is unsettling etc. it does seem to be the case with ds, and the other keyworker even said to me the other day that a couple of other kids have been playing up and wanting parents to stay after the Xmas holiday.

WaynettaSlobsLover Mon 14-Jan-13 20:56:17

Shelby and mummytokatie. Thanks very much for your advice. I do think ds is trying it on a bit but I do see that he is also in a proper state when I go to pick him up. It's a small nursery but with big classes and around 3 staff per 20 kids or something like that. Also it's a nursery where autistic kids or kids with other special needs/learning difficulties go, and I know sometimes it gets a bit loud and boisterous because of that. He doesn't cope great with too much noise if he's feeling vulnerable or upset sad

JustFabulous Mon 14-Jan-13 20:57:24

If they can't be arsed to do their job because the mother is getting time for free rather than paying for it then it is pretty crap and they are actually taking it out on the child. And don't they get paid the same no matter what payment the parents are or are not giving?

rainrainandmorerain Mon 14-Jan-13 22:13:42

A couple of things.

If the staff/child ratio is really around 3:20 (wow) AND there are some children with special or higher needs there.... how much time do you realistically think one staff member can give to your son if he is having problems?

The brutal truth for most working mums is that they HAVE to leave their child at nursery even if they are unhappy. It may be that some small children are 'trying it on' when they seem to be upset and won't settle. It may also be that they are genuinely unhappy and distraught but they will still be left there as the mother has no choice. I'm not arguing the rights or wrongs of this, just being purely pragmatic. If a household needs 2 incomes and there's a mortgage that won't be paid if that doesn't happen, what are they supposed to do? They can try their damndest to find the best nursery, and to get their dcs as happy as they can be - but at the end of the day, they have to work regardless of how their dc is. Short of banged heads/medical emergencies.

you do have a choice - and you have other options to explore. Only YOU know whether your dc is upset and what the demands on your time are. I am very sympathetic, btw - I work at home as a writer too, funnily enough, and yeah, I get some of tha. much fabled flexibility in terms of time, but it is DAMN hard. Remember, those free 15 hours of pre-school are only free to us because someone else is paying for them (i.e they are funded places) - if a nursery gets drop outs or complaints from parents using those free places, then they can be reviewed and withdrawn. It is very unlikely you are being 'discriminated' against as a sahm using your free hours - it sounds more like this is a bit of a pre-school 'barn' with a few staff and a lot of kids, and they struggle with children who need more attention.

I agree with other posters that a cm with only a couple of kids to look after in a home environment will be a better option to explore.

pointythings Mon 14-Jan-13 22:16:32

Sorry, but your nursery is shit. My DCs were in nursery from 6 months old (aeons ago) and they both went through unsettled stages. The nursery just handled it. Cuddles, distraction, reading - it was all there, and it worked.

The same thing happened at their out of school place, which also has a nursery - they had a little boy who was finding it very difficult to settle, his keyworker was there for him every day, had him on her lap whilst she was getting on with admin work, was cuddling him and talking to him the whole time. It took 3 months, but he settled and he was cared for the whole time.

Good nurseries should handle this sort of thing without thinking about it.

maxmillie Mon 14-Jan-13 22:22:08

I was on your other thread. Give. A months notice and find another nursery. Seriously. You don't need the stress,

CloudsAndTrees Mon 14-Jan-13 22:22:34

I think YABU. You have said you don't think your child is happy there, so if he's not happy, why do you want to leave him there? confused

I'd much rather send my child to a nursery where they would phone me if my very small child was upset and asking to go home instead of just letting him cry and disrupt other children. I don't think their policy is shite at all. They have said he should come back and try again tomorrow, what more do you want?

tiggytape Mon 14-Jan-13 22:28:47

I'd much rather send my child to a nursery where they would phone me if my very small child was upset and asking to go home instead of just letting him cry

I'd rather send him to a nursery where neither happened. I'd want them to help him settle. He probably was partially upset going back after Christmas and illness and being out of routine (my 12 year old still gets like that even now after a holiday off school) but all this to-ing and fro-ing can't help.

Call me heartless but I'd tell them to keep trying and call me again in 20 minutes to let me know how it was going (that probably does sound heartless but it is ridiculous that a nursery doesn't have the skills to settle a child who has attended for a while and was previously happy there). It is not even like they are calling you for his own sake (i.e. DS upset) but more because keyworker has had enough and decided not to deal with it.

LeeCoakley Mon 14-Jan-13 22:28:58

If it wasn't free, would you still send him?

golemmings Mon 14-Jan-13 22:35:16

I think you need to find somewhere that better reflects your ds' needs. All nurseries are unique just like all children and the secret is finding the institution to suit the child.

Unsettled children was one of the issues I raised with our nursery when dd started. I asked what they would do if she didn't settle; they told me she would, they'd never had a child who hadn't with a bit of distraction and they had NEVER had to phone a parent to collect their child because the child was unhappy.

having said that, dd was at nursery part time from the age of 1 and has now just started a couple of sessions a week at the pre-school that feeds the primary she will probably be going to. Her second day was today and she cried. Not for long, but a little when she was dropped off. NOt sure why; her best friend from nursery was there and she knows half the children in the class but she was clingy and she cried. Preschool made more of an issue out of it than nursery do. I think they're less well equipped to deal with it with higher child:staff ratios etc. If she was still upset after 6 months I'd definitely have her out of there!

I hope you find somewhere that's better suited to your boy. Its miserable for both of you if he's somewhere he doesn't like.

Viewofthehills Mon 14-Jan-13 22:36:30

It doesn't sound good to me. A good nursery will stop them from getting too upset in the first place. I pulled my daughter out of a similar nursery because she wouldn't settle and she went to the local playschool with lovely, older, 'Aunties' who were quite motherly. She went from there straight to school with no problems and was just as well prepared for more formal learning as all the others (if not better).
Follow your instinct- this nursery is not suiting him.

WorraLiberty Mon 14-Jan-13 22:37:36

How old is your DS and why do the Autistic kids/other kids with SN mean the place is so loud and boisterous your child can't cope?

narmada Mon 14-Jan-13 22:39:55

Hmmmm, I am suspicious.

ONe, it appears you are not paying and are using your 15 free hours allowance, or have I got that wrong? If so, I would be fairly confident that what the nursery are actually trying to do is get rid of you. The money they get from the LA to fund the places in no way correlates with what they could get from a privately-paying parent of a child who is too young to qualify for funding. Really, the LA funding (No fault of the LA) is paltry.

I am horrified that they seem to call you up so easily. It's normal for children to be unsettled when you drop them off, and for some time after. Staying with your child is not at all usual.

Alternatively, I wonder if they have some sort of issue with ratios. Ratios are not optional and OFsted are really strict about them. Perhaps they over-committed and need some kids off their books in order to sort their ratios out..... I think you mentioned upthread something about ratios.

IT's either one of the above, or that they are just beyond crap.

I am glad you are considering pulling your son out and I would second the childminder suggestion - childminders are fundamentally no different to nurseries because care is off your home premises BUT they provide IME a far more 'normal' home environment, and I say that as someone who has used both types of childcare. I was a bit unsure about the 'behind closed doors' aspect of childminders but I can now see I was being slightly ridiculous about that one!

I hope you find somewhere nice for your DC soon.

rainrainandmorerain Mon 14-Jan-13 22:51:26

Here's some perspective. Have a look at this thread that cropped up here today - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1659065-surely-this-cant-be-right-aibu-to-complain-to-head-of-nursery-group

Do you think those workers are calling parents to let them know their kids are very unhappy?

It would be great if your ds was happy and settled in nursery from the off. Second best - it would be great if as a result of intensive staff effort, he was settled after being upset at drop off. Third - your son doesn't settle easily, remains upset, and after some attempts to settle him (perhaps as much as they can realistically do if there are 3 staff for every 20 children, and a few kids with SN), they call you to say, come and get him.

Fourth - a child ends up somewhere like this. I bet there are parents picking kids up from here at the end of the day with no idea it's like this. And the workers sure as hell aren't ringing them to tell them their child is upset.

You've tried one option, it's not working out well for you or your ds, and you've got other options to explore, which you are willing and able to do. Good.

hazeyjane Mon 14-Jan-13 22:52:03

Do the children with sn not have any sort of 1:1? I can't imagine a nursery that has children with sn having a ratio of 3:20!

I am in the position of having to stay with ds when he starts preschool, so it is a bit different, but I know when dd1 was very upset at preschool, the staff would call and ask if I wanted to come in and get her, I didn't think it was that unusual, but maybe it is!

Dd1 was unhappy when she swapped to a new nursery room, we should have pulled her out earlier, but when we did she was a changed child. Have since spoken to another parent with similar experience at the same 'outstanding' place - she went to a satisfactory one full of lovely aunties and grannies.

dd2 however hated noise, in retrospect we maybe should have tried to find a cm for her, we didn't really understand all her issues until it was too late, we still have confidence in the setting,

ds can saunter in anywhere, wherever he lays his hat is his home! Look around at other places, cm, go to toddler groups, get some recomendations, if not for your ds, then for the baby.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 14-Jan-13 23:08:32

I'd take him out and DH wouldn't be getting a say - it's not him traipsing backwards & forwards & putting up with all the crap. It sounds like a totally crap nursery.

Look at others and accredited CMs. Find somewhere to use your hours and give you a break and DS some time to learn to be without you.

I would suggest that your DS has realised that if he keeps crying, nursery will phone mum and mum will come and get him. If they'd nipped that in the bud from the off, it wouldn't be a problem now. Also suspect other posters are right in that they're trying to get rid of you so they can get someone else who's paying more money in...

OnwardBound Tue 15-Jan-13 00:16:36

I would also take him out of this nursery.

It sounds as if your DS is unhappy there, probably not just throwing a strop as another poster said hmm.

Agree with rainrain who linked to the other thread. At least the nursery is letting you know your DS is upset and asking to go home. I can understand that it's a major hassle for you to go collect him but perhaps the key worker really has tried to settle him but he became too distressed?

I think it is better for you to know that and consider other options for him, rather than they didn't tell you, tried to settle him [ineffectually] and left him to cry it out.

MrsMelons Tue 15-Jan-13 08:22:32

I would not want my DCs at a nursery who's policy is to NOT settle the children in. If you were at work you would not be able to be be back and forth. They sound a bit lazy and that they are not actually trying to settle him. It doesn't sound like a particular nice nursery from what you describe, not very nurturing.

Lots of children become unsettled throughout the year due to changes at home (new babies etc) but the DCs pre-school would always ensure they communicate with the parents to make it work for them and the child.

I would move him and make sure wherever he goes CM/nursery that you find out their policy on settling the children.

ophelia275 Tue 15-Jan-13 10:30:15

I don't understand this. Surely if you are paying for nursery then it is up to them to settle the child? They should just do their f-ing job and if they can't soothe a crying child then perhaps it is not a very good nursery?

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