What to do about neurotic YR 5/6 teachers?

(194 Posts)
AnnaLiza Wed 05-Dec-12 20:47:49

I'm not saying that my DSs are saints but the teachers of previous years have never complained about their behaviour at school! Since the beginning of this academic year, though, the two female teachers for Yrs 5 and 6 are telling them off and making them cry at least once a week! For example:
DS1 (yr 6) got badly told off for bouncing a ball while he was walking to the assembly line and the ball was confiscated for two days.
DS2 (yr 5) got into serious trouble for flicking a pencil during a lesson.
DS1 got shouted at for talking during a lesson and for daring to say that other people were talking too.
Also they tell me that one of these two teachers refers to some other children as "idiots" and the other one is shouting half of the time and almost always at boys only.
AIBU or this is totally unacceptable?

AnnaLiza Wed 05-Dec-12 21:14:47

*hardly ever cry at home

Annunziata Wed 05-Dec-12 21:15:25

So? Children need to learn to behave. When do you think is old enough to not bounce balls and flick pencils in class?

apostrophethesnowman Wed 05-Dec-12 21:16:03

I pity the teachers if that's your attitude. shock

HassledHasASledge Wed 05-Dec-12 21:16:17

Individually yes, they are minor dismeanours. As part of a pattern, though, of repeated disobedience and flouting of what they know to be the rules - well, that makes it less minor. They're being told off at least once a week - so at least once a week they're doing something.

If you really believe the problem is the teachers and not your children then you need to make an appointment to see the Head. But I think a period of you reinforcing the "don't mess about in school" line at home may turn things around.

AnnaLiza Wed 05-Dec-12 21:16:30

I have spoken to the shouty teacher about the ball bouncing incident and tbh she seemed to feel a bit embarrassed and having crocodile tears about the whole thing. She'd always been raving about DS1 upon until then.

ImaginateMum Wed 05-Dec-12 21:17:13

"but they're children for goodness sake" - come on, they are Year 5 and 6. They need to know that they can't do whatever they like. There are 30 kids in the class and if everyone could bounce balls, chat, flick pencils, how much work would get done?

ghoulelocks Wed 05-Dec-12 21:18:17

Right, normally I don't bother but I'll explain WHY these things are disciplined as such so it makes sense.

1.bouncing balls and other silly things they are told not to do mean huge amounts of time can be wasted instead of following very simple instruction properly. Do you want children learning or spending 15 min every time they transition from one lesson/ place to another?
2. flicking pencils in a confined space is dangerous and disruptive, at worst the point could catch someone in the eye and at best it will interrupt learning
3. Answering back wastes time, if every child answered back every instruction no learning would take place as there would be constant dialogue about pointless matters.

Learning is the key.

If your children cannot grasp this or evaluate the situation and realise why they are being shouted at/ told off then to be blunt I'd have a big pinch of salt to hand when they told me about another situation involving the word 'idiot' or shouting. It sounds like they might be happier at school if you talked through with them WHY they are getting into trouble and supported them in receiving positive feedback in class. If you don't back the school up and allow your boys to keep getting into trouble over petty things without teaching them why it's happening then they are not going to be as happy as they could be in the school environment as they will be torn between different expectations and values constantly. It's not fair on them.

The teacher wouldn't be able to over-react if they weren't doing wrong in the first place. My DS is in year 6 if this was him I would be lecturing him about being better behaved.

AnnaLiza Wed 05-Dec-12 21:18:42

Yes I agree but aren't "good" children allowed to get something wrong every now and again?

jamdonut Wed 05-Dec-12 21:18:43

Flicked pencils! It is low level disruption...one starts and then others do it at various intervals...pencils clattering is like chinese water torture.

And why on earth did he have a ball, in class,while lining up for assembly, anyway? I would have had that off him pretty sharply.

Also..why was your child talking during a lesson? Just because others were apparently doing it doesn't make it right! Obviously not showing Behaviour for Learning there. And how many times had he already been warned for not talking before the teacher lost it and shouted?

Finally...I'll dare bet the teacher said they were behaving like idiots, not that they are idiots. (condemning the action not the child.)

lovebunny Wed 05-Dec-12 21:19:26

hmmm. the teachers might be under a lot of stress, as mentioned. schools can be very difficult places to work.

have you read the new teachers standards? a child answering back, or bouncing a ball against a wall, might be enough to make your school seem imperfect.

teachers are in a 'no win' situation. there are pupils, there are parents, there are leaders and there are ofsted inspectors. one or more of them will attack you. a killer blow is always just around the corner. no wonder they're stressed.

teach your boys how to behave properly and save the teachers having to hassle them at all.

lovebunny Wed 05-Dec-12 21:21:21

aren't "good" children allowed to get something wrong every now and again?
no! that's even worse. the worst kind of betrayal is when a good pupil starts to behave badly. it hurts ten times as much as when those who can't help it or those who are full of hatred start to kick off.

ohfunnyface Wed 05-Dec-12 21:21:40

Seriously, 'they're only children' is your defence? They're doomed.

I predict horrific teenage years.

It sound like it is everyone's fault apart from their own, and yours.

ImaginateMum Wed 05-Dec-12 21:23:18

They weren't sent to another room, sent to the Head of Year, sent to the Head, given detention or expelled! So allowance was made for them being "good". If they do the wrong thing they have to expect to be told off.

jamdonut Wed 05-Dec-12 21:24:00

They don't exactly sound like "good" children, the way you are describing them.

"Good " children are "always" children.(ie they are always doing the right thing, without having to be moaned at all the time)

AnnaLiza Wed 05-Dec-12 21:24:19

Yeah right, now they're doomed! Shouldn't have posted here. Thanks for those who have given me polite and constructive advice. Shame about the dramatic ones who try to make you feel like a shitty parent

TobyLerone Wed 05-Dec-12 21:24:28

Wait 'til they're at secondary! DD (Y7)'s teacher told some kids in her class that they needed to stop pissing about and bloody well pay attention the other day grin

Your DSes could do with toughening up a bit, IMO.

"good" hmm children are allowed to get things wrong, they are also allowed to be told off for it.

ghoulelocks Wed 05-Dec-12 21:28:06

Constructive advice?

Ok:
It's not about you, it's about them. Put up your hang ups about how you feel as a parent and decide the best way to support them. Just calmly talk through why these things happen and help them identify positive ways to get attention. They are children and need these things spelt out clearly to them and consistency from adults in their lives for security.

Viewofthehills Wed 05-Dec-12 21:28:14

Kids Yr 6 and going up to high school next year should know how to behave by now. If they mess about they lose a lot of time cumulatively for the kids who want to learn while the teachers deal with them.

Tell them they are big now and it isn't cute to be silly anymore, it's just tiresome.

On the 'idiot' point. While I don't think it is the best term to use, there is a difference between using it to children who are being silly, compared with children who find the work difficult. In which way is it being used?

ohfunnyface Wed 05-Dec-12 21:30:51

I just love the way the teacher has crocodile tears but your sons are devastated.

You will influence and shape your sons' perception of school- just ask yourself what you want that to be, before you start indulging their every complaint.

lovebunny Wed 05-Dec-12 21:31:02

and a third message from me (you've obviously touched a nerve!)

i was talking to a boy today, 14, sent out of class for 'low-level disruption'. i gently nagged him about aspects of his behaviour and of course he had to admit i was right - he knew what he was doing was wrong. so then i asked what he wanted to do as a career. electrical engineer. i have no idea what they do, so i guessed.
'oh,' i said, 'if you were working and someone put their hand between you and the circuit so you couldn't see to do your job, would that annoy you?' 'yes!' he replied.
'and if you were on a ladder trying to do something technical and someone tugged at your clothes, would that bother you?' 'yes! i wouldn't be able to do my job!' 'but that's what you're doing to sir. he's doing his job and you are stopping him.'
sheepish look from boy, 14.
low level disruption stops teachers doing their job. they can't teach and the other children, who want to learn, can't learn as effectively as they would if everyone was co-operating.
sort out your children. the other children are going home and telling their parents who it is who disrupts lessons. that will impact in high school, when parents become concerned about examination success and write in to school to have your sons removed from particular classes.

wadadlis Wed 05-Dec-12 21:34:28

OMG tell your kids to man up or they are going to be crucified at secondary school.
you should be supporting the school.

ppeatfruit Wed 05-Dec-12 21:37:05

Annaliza you can't win on here! All DCs should be automatons "learning is the key" they learn that they're considered to be less than human; thats what they learn and it doesn't make them into 'good teenagers' Who wants 'good teenagers' who can't think for themselves anyway? it makes them into rebellious, unhappy teenagers.

My teenagers were not horrific and I respected their right to their own feelings.

Feenie Wed 05-Dec-12 21:37:35

Neurotic Y5/Y6 teachers, my arse.

<snort>

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