to think benefits are a safety net against poverty, not a cushion against an uncomfortable life ?

(310 Posts)
TalkinPeace2 Sun 30-Sep-12 18:02:52

Prompted by a thread where somebody said "DH has lost his job, what benefits are we entitled to?"

Sorry, but its the duty of ALL those on more than average wages (£26k per household) to put money aside for a rainy day.
No wonder the country is up to its eyes in debt if people first think about benefits rather than self reliance.

The benefit system should be to prevent true poverty, no more.

The American system has too many gaps. Most European systems, including that in the UK, provide far too comfortable a cushion, at far too high a cost to the next generation (as historically current over generous benefits have been kicked down the road to be paid for by our children who will never be entitled to such things).

Empusa Sun 30-Sep-12 18:25:43

"I care about who gets what benefit because there are too many funds going to those who do not need"

Like people who have lost their jobs you mean? hmm

Whitecherry Sun 30-Sep-12 18:25:50

there are too many funds going to those who do not need

How much is going to whom? Which benefit is this?

Whitecherry Sun 30-Sep-12 18:26:41

talkin

Can you do the courtesy of answering some questions on your thread please?

Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold Sun 30-Sep-12 18:27:04

Talkin Peace said If the Poles can take jobs why can the English not beat then to it.

Well Talkin the "Poles" as you so charmingly call them are having as bad a time here as the rest of the country and here comes a copy and paste to illustrate that fact.

A large crowd in the Hope Centre are from Romania, and say they are waiting for food because collecting scrap metal and washing cars isn't enough to make ends meet. A bigger number is there because of benefit delays and cuts, or simply because they are no longer able to make their low wages stretch.

TalkinPeace2 Sun 30-Sep-12 18:27:09

Not sure why talking about Poles makes me racist. They and I are white immigrants to the UK.

There is something wrong with a soceaty that considers it OK to have children leave school and go straight onto benefits, just because their parents have. Surely we should all support targeting of the mahoosive social security budget to turn these people into taxpayers.

I cannot see why nobody has any constructive ideas.

Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold Sun 30-Sep-12 18:28:13
Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold Sun 30-Sep-12 18:28:49

A large crowd in the Hope Centre are from Romania, and say they are waiting for food because collecting scrap metal and washing cars isn't enough to make ends meet. A bigger number is there because of benefit delays and cuts, or simply because they are no longer able to make their low wages stretch.

margerykemp Sun 30-Sep-12 18:28:59

"Prompted by a thread where somebody said "DH has lost his job, what benefits are we entitled to?"" It is bad MN etiquette to start a thread about a thread.

"Sorry, but its the duty of ALL those on more than average wages (£26k per household) to put money aside for a rainy day." Firstly £26k is not the average household income. Households will need different incomes according to their needs eg a single person in a shared flat will have less living expenses than a employed person with a sahp and 4 DCs. Can you see that?
"No wonder the country is up to its eyes in debt if people first think about benefits rather than self reliance." With interest rates so low now isnt a good time to save anyway. with rising living costs and stagnent wages and high housing costs most people cant afford to save. When people are working a lot of their money (NI+IT) is for the purpose of unemployment insurance. We do still have some non-means tested contribution based benefits in this country- if you want to discuss the pors and cons of this, start another thread wink

"The benefit system should be to prevent true poverty, no more." Please define 'true poverty'? there is plenty of 'absolute poverty' in the UK- look at the homelessness stats or food banks or people dying from hypothermia/malnuitrition.

"The American system has too many gaps. Most European systems, including that in the UK, provide far too comfortable a cushion, at far too high a cost to the next generation (as historically current over generous benefits have been kicked down the road to be paid for by our children who will never be entitled to such things)." Most of the social security budget is spent on pensions- do you realise that? Are you intending on NOT claiming YOUR state pension?

BTW the global financial crisis was NOT caused by social security spending.

Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold Sun 30-Sep-12 18:29:21

DarkesteyeswithflecksofgoldSun 30-Sep-12 18:28:49

A large crowd in the Hope Centre are from Romania, and say they are waiting for food because collecting scrap metal and washing cars isn't enough to make ends meet. A bigger number is there because of benefit delays and cuts, or simply because they are no longer able to make their low wages stretch.

Mydogsleepsonthebed Sun 30-Sep-12 18:29:28

Race is not the same as colour. FYI.

RatherBeOnThePiste Sun 30-Sep-12 18:29:42

"Benefits" should not be a lifestyle choice - and trust me they are."

???

Here's a good idea, let's blame those who need help for the failures of government with the shit attitudes they encourage.

and this is a gem of yours too..

"I could not give a shit what telly they have.
I'm more interested to know if they are motivated to watch decent stuff on it an look for ways out of their predicaments"

Yes, of course, it is that easy

Empusa Sun 30-Sep-12 18:29:55

"There is something wrong with a soceaty that considers it OK to have children leave school and go straight onto benefits, just because their parents have."

And yet in your OP you are talking about someone who has been working and is then asking about benefits after they lost said job (and for while they are presumably job hunting).

If you problem is solely with "lifestyle" claimants, then why start off by talking about people losing jobs and claiming?

RichPetunia Sun 30-Sep-12 18:32:34

OP
I agree with ALL the points you've made. Just so you know there's someone out there on your side....

Fairyjen Sun 30-Sep-12 18:32:47

Can you tell me what channel I should be watching on my black and white telly wink so I can learn how to make sure I don't end up on a predicament?

I'm sitting waiting anxiously for you response. Every days a school day!!

monkeysbignuts Sun 30-Sep-12 18:32:51

I agree benefits should be a temporary stop gap and I am sure most people who have earned 26k & lost their job would be desperate to get back into employment. I can't see anyone wanting to stay on benefits long term. As for anyone being able to save money when earning 26k , I think that statement is a little silly given the cost of mortgages, food shopping, petrol etc etc. The cost of living is so high now & even when we had 32k to live off we struggled to have holidays or luxery's with 2 children to look after.

poachedeggs Sun 30-Sep-12 18:33:40

I know a family of educated professionals who own two homes. Due to the housing market failing and the arrival of their children at the same time, they are on an incredibly tight budget. To the extent that the self-employed DH had to take a month off recently due to anaemia which has been attributed to their very frugal diet. The rest of the family were also affected.

Their income will greatly exceed our household income but we have a little bit of help from the tax credits and don't have anaemia.

I'm happy to pay tax to help people in their situation.

Not to mention location. 26k pa might leave you plenty left over if you live in the outer hebrides, but here in the south east we're struggling to put away savings whilst earning nearly 10k more than that - and before anyone asks about mortgage/4 bedrooms etc etc (yes I've seen threads like this before), we're in a 1 bed flat with no garden, no bath, poor access and no central heating.

Whitecherry Sun 30-Sep-12 18:34:19

Are you off googling op?

You speak with such authority, the details should just be tumbling out...

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sun 30-Sep-12 18:35:06

What kipper said

I think the scariest thing right now is that so many have been sucked into living the Big Lie.

That thousands of families have never worked and never intend to.
That the global crises is down to the poor
If we make people poorer and suffer poor everything will get better.

I ran really, how stupid do you have to be to believe this crap?...

rhetorical question

Fairyjen Sun 30-Sep-12 18:36:06

Monkey, I think it's clear. Your not meant to have holidays or luxuries!!

Viviennemary Sun 30-Sep-12 18:37:35

I don't see why somebody who has lost their job is not entitled to benefit. Of course they are. But it does irk me a bit to see people on benefit getting more money than people on low wages. I don't think that's right. If this is benefit bashing then sorry.

TalkinPeace2 Sun 30-Sep-12 18:37:42

Whitecherry
the winter fuel allowance goes to all pensioners, regardless of income. It is currently £200 per person.

I'm yet to see any constructive thoughts, just slagging off of what I said and of the status quo / supporting the status quo in unequal measure, with no comprehension that with a greying populace, we are consigning our children to penury if we do not balance the books
(PS this dilemma predates Northern Rock etc by over 15 years if you read the relevant studies)

I'll hide this thread soon, but I'll wait to see if anybody is brave enough to come out with constructive ideas rather than biscuits.

chibi Sun 30-Sep-12 18:38:38

i don't even get angry about threads like this anymore, i just sort of feel my soul draining out through the bottoms of my feet

How long do you think money for a rainy day might last? We are on good wages, and we do put money by, but it wouldn't take long at all to run through it. How is someone who is supporting a family of 4 on £26000 meant to be able to put by the amount needed to maintain them - can you imaging how long itwould it take to save that amount? what happens if their job is lost in the meantime? or the wage-earner becomes unable to work? or something else?

however tedious it feels to keep saying it, it is worth pointing out that most people in receipt of benefits are in work - they receive housing benefit to top up crappy wages that can't cover insane rent prices, they receive WTC and CTC. it might be an idea to question instead why is it that it is increasingly difficult if not impossible to support a family on an income which falls below a certain threshold without having recourse to state support?.

It might also behoove someone to ask, if a certain wage cannot reasonably be called a living wage, why are so many people expected to live on it?

RatherBeOnThePiste Sun 30-Sep-12 18:38:42

I'm going to watch the telly with fairyjen to make sure I don't have a predicament

LovelyMrsDV <passes Smirnoff ice> The answer is very bloody stupid.

monkeysbignuts Sun 30-Sep-12 18:39:03

true! we had to suffer Haven with our children this year, we are one of those riff raff families wink

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