to think benefits are a safety net against poverty, not a cushion against an uncomfortable life ?

(310 Posts)
TalkinPeace2 Sun 30-Sep-12 18:02:52

Prompted by a thread where somebody said "DH has lost his job, what benefits are we entitled to?"

Sorry, but its the duty of ALL those on more than average wages (£26k per household) to put money aside for a rainy day.
No wonder the country is up to its eyes in debt if people first think about benefits rather than self reliance.

The benefit system should be to prevent true poverty, no more.

The American system has too many gaps. Most European systems, including that in the UK, provide far too comfortable a cushion, at far too high a cost to the next generation (as historically current over generous benefits have been kicked down the road to be paid for by our children who will never be entitled to such things).

TalkinPeace2 Sun 30-Sep-12 18:12:46

Benefits should be a stop gap.
Why are you talking about what people on benefits are "allowed"
they can spend their money as they wish - BUT it should only be to help people back into work, or to make being / caring for disabled people feasible.
"Benefits" should not be a lifestyle choice - and trust me they are.

Sammy What about those who have never paid tax or NI - 3rd generation unemployed ....

To clarify : I personally think that ERS NI for employees on under £15000 should be halved or even quartered - as it would encourage employers to hire lower skilled staff, it would dismantle the tax credits nightmare at a stroke and it would separate out the indigent from the unable ...

Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold Sun 30-Sep-12 18:13:13

If bening on benefits or low wages is such a walk in the park then why are food banks springing up like daffodils in springtime.

UnChartered Sun 30-Sep-12 18:13:24

OP, what if you've only just been appointed to your <ahem> averagely paid job and the company goes bust/you are laid off sick as the result of an accident?

LynetteScavo Sun 30-Sep-12 18:13:47

"Define poverty. What is someone on benefits "allowed"? Can one have a car but only if it's more than 10 years old, a tv as long as it isn't a plasma, and only mince in the week and a roast on a Sunday?"

No, we have old cars, soya mince only and no plasma TV..... because it's what we can afford. Does that mean we are proper poor? grin

Feminine Sun 30-Sep-12 18:14:01

Why do you care op why?

I'm so tired with these threads...

Whitecherry Sun 30-Sep-12 18:14:20

Love how you say what people should be doing....almost like you are some authority to be listened to?!

Huge flaw in your theory OP.

Many people cannot afford to put a substantial amount aside for a rainy day because living costs are so high that they are struggling. Even families on over 36k.

Mydogsleepsonthebed Sun 30-Sep-12 18:14:49

Emmmm have you tried to get a job recently?

Goady goady goad goad Talkin - not a nice OP not a nice attitude.

I've been on benefits. it's not a picnic and I hope never to be there again. And FWIW employers don't want lower skilled staff, even people with degrees can't get jobs.

UnChartered Sun 30-Sep-12 18:15:33

OP, i've changed my mind, please don't read and answer my question

i can't be arsed engaging with you now

LynetteScavo Sun 30-Sep-12 18:16:08

Food banks are sprining up because people have desperately tried thier best not to sink by taking out credit...and in the end what is left? Credit, no job, no food....people don't go to food banks unless they really need to. And yet, they are well used, and will continue to be so. sad

Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold Sun 30-Sep-12 18:17:35

OP if you are so against someone claiming what they are entitled to then im assuming you dont and have never claimed your Child Benefit.
Because obviously you would never be that hypocritical!!!
Incidentally as this thread alludes to a thread started by someone else whose DH has lost his job i would have thought this was tantamount to bullying.

Mydogsleepsonthebed Sun 30-Sep-12 18:17:40

Lynette - I have an old car that's falling apart , no plasma tellies here big clunky old things and we don't have meat every night. Am I proper poor too? wink grin

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Sun 30-Sep-12 18:17:57

I'd rather see someone receive benefits because they have lost their job and have no savings than see someone receive benefits because they got themselves pregnant when they didn't have a stable home and income.

WelshMaenad Sun 30-Sep-12 18:18:48

OMG, nobody has EVER before put forward the argument that benefits shouldn't be a lifestyle choice! I do love a fresh new perspective.

Can we play Benefit Bash Bingo?

"Shouldn't be a lifestyle choice"
"52" plasma tv"
"Holiday to DisneyWorld"
"Obviously not if you're disabled"
"Bring back hanging"

Mydogsleepsonthebed Sun 30-Sep-12 18:19:01

So, the deserving poor can get benefits, and the undeserving poor must hang by their own thread and starve. Workhouse anyone?

TalkinPeace2 Sun 30-Sep-12 18:19:12

I care about who gets what benefit because there are too many funds going to those who do not need
(non means tested fuel benefits being spent at Majestic)
too much persecution of those who really need - ATOS dodgy tests of the disabled
too much money siphoned out of the system in 'management fees' - do you KNOW how much Crapita get for running that blooming WTC system
and not enough going to those who really need,
and not in a way that actually helps them to break the cycle.

I could not give a shit what telly they have.
I'm more interested to know if they are motivated to watch decent stuff on it an look for ways out of their predicaments
and FFS if the Poles can take jobs, why can the English not beat them to it :
supermarket cleaning is not high skilled, but it DOES pay less than JSA +HB - = the benefit trap ...

KenLeeeeeee Sun 30-Sep-12 18:19:19

Dammit, I'm on a diet so popcorn is off the menu!

gordyslovesheep Sun 30-Sep-12 18:19:42

I have a 546546745764 inch goat ready wide screen and have 657656585 holidays a year

can NOT afford bickies though

Mydogsleepsonthebed Sun 30-Sep-12 18:21:05

Oh Racism to boot. I call bingo.

Mydogsleepsonthebed Sun 30-Sep-12 18:21:53

How the fuck does watching TV help you get a job? What is "decent stuff"? Dowtown but not Jezza?

SammyTheSwedishSquirrel Sun 30-Sep-12 18:22:40

Sammy What about those who have never paid tax or NI - 3rd generation unemployed ....

The point of your OP was that people earning more than average (26k) should take care of themselves. Since when have 3rd generation unemployed earnt more than 26k? Seems like you're moving the goalposts mid game because you realise your on the losing side.

OrangeKipper Sun 30-Sep-12 18:23:33

"The benefit system should be to prevent true poverty, no more."

Sez who?

The whole point of the benefits system - and the NHS and state schooling - was that almost everyone should put in and almost everyone should take out. The system acts as redistribution over people's life-times, not just between people.

Which is why we have non-means tested benefits like child benefit, state pension, etc, and progressive NI and taxes to pay for them.

Suddenly we have people like you, OP, sweepingly redefining the whole purpose of the welfare state, without any discussion.

Hence the new means testing of child benefit, incapacity benefits and they're about to go for the old age benefits. Makes it much easier to create a class of "benefits recipients" to then demonise, doesn't it, than when we're all recipients?

Whitecherry Sun 30-Sep-12 18:23:56

non means tested fuel benefits being spent at Majestic

How much is this benefit? Payable when and to whom??

My husband and I earn £30k between us but that will drop now I'm on maternity leave. We don't have any disposable income to set aside for savings, we're paying off debts & are trying to reduce them.

grin at "widescreen goat"

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