Seeking frank answers about newborn/infant adoption

[WhyAmISoDaft]

I'm new to information seeking about adoption so please be gentle with me, but also frank!

I've been reading conflicting information about adopting babies/infants. I've read somewhere that says there are very few / 'almost no' children under 12 months who need adopting in the UK. Is that true?

The second question is, is there an age limit or preference for age of adoptive parents for newborns/infants?

My husband and I are in our late 30s. He will be 37 and I'll be 38/39 before the ball gets rolling. I read on this forum of a 38 year old woman who said she was too old to be considered for a very young child. Is that also true?

Many thanks for any advice and please excuse my lack of knowledge on this.

[Italiangreyhound]

It is true that most children in the system for adoption are not yoiung babies but it is not true that you would be considered too old at 37/38/39 for a baby. My friend adopted a baby in her early 40s. Most adopters I have met are late 30s to mid 40s.

There are few babies so 'competition' to adopt a baby is definitely a factor.

You say "My husband and I are in our late 30s. He will be 37 and I'll be 38/39 before the ball gets rolling. " That sounds fine, is there a reason why the ball cannot get rolling now?

Please feel free to ask anything else you like.

[slkk]

From what I've read, if you want a young baby you may need to look at foster to adopt. There are some posters here who have some experience of this.

[WhyAmISoDaft]

Thanks for your response italian, that's helpful.

My husband and I discovered that we have fertility issues a while back. The NHS has referred us for IVF (we have no children), but we are very unsure we want to go down that route. Both of us favour adoption at the moment, as we've always said it's a great (albeit difficult thing, we understand) to do.

So now we're just at the stage of trying to find out more about it. We would like to make a decision about adopting and would need to withdraw from the IVF juggernaut before it starts, if so. (We're only at the stage of being sent to an IVF information meeting.)

The waiting for the ball to get rolling refers to the time that I think LAs/agencies want couples to have in between discovering their fertility issues and starting the adoption process.

The reason we're thinking about adopting a young child is that I have zero experience in raising in a child, I'm ashamed to say. I was the youngest in a small family, and had no cousins around me growing up.

It feels like older adoptive children who have more challenging needs would benefit from more experienced parents. I realise the huge commitment taking on the role of parent for a child, and I would hate my inexperience to result in making a child's situation worse, not better if you see what I mean.

Any further thoughts you could share on the issue (a huge topic, I know!) would be so gratefully received. I'm also wondering what might be good resources to read.

[WhyAmISoDaft]

Thanks slkk that sounds interesting and I don't know anything about that route either, so shall look it up!

[anxious123]

Slightly different in that I'm a birth mum not an adopter but my sons forever parents are in there early 40s, he was placed with them at 10 months. He would of potentially been placed earlier had we not been waiting for a court date for the placement order to be granted (this is probably a big hold up for young babies in the adoption process). I know my local authority aim to place young infants before their 1st birthday if at all possible.

So from my PoV and experience, your not too old and yes young infants are out there but competition for them is fierce.

I'd possibly keep an open mind and discuss age ranges with a social worker - you may have more to offer than you think.

Good luck

[WhyAmISoDaft]

Thanks anxious that's really helpful - and encouraging! Thanks for sharing your experience.

[Italiangreyhound]

WhyAmISoDaft Re We would like to make a decision about adopting and would need to withdraw from the IVF juggernaut before it starts, if so. (We're only at the stage of being sent to an IVF information meeting.)

We have two children, a daughter aged 10 from IUI (similar to IVF) and a son aged 4 who joined our family aged 3 via adoption.

I would really advise you to think very hard about whether it is right to withdraw from the IVF programme (of course I know you will). We paid for our IUI and IVF and ended up having treatment with donor eggs, which all cost a fortune, this was before and after the birth of our daughter. I found it very hard to be able to give up fertility treatment as we really wanted it to work despite having one child already. As we were funding our treatment ourselves it was hard to know when to stop, but when our money ran out we had to. We were very happy to go for adoption and love our son to bits. But for me fertility treatment was part of the journey.

One key factor is you will almost certainly not be able to go back later and try fertility treatment on the NHS if you decide adoption is not for you. This is because there are age limited connected to fertility to do with your own eggs, as I am sure you know. You can have treatment with donor eggs up to a later stage but I do not know if this is ever available on the NHS, it is very expensive and the child would not be genetically related to you. Clearly as we have a son by adoption and I had treatment with donor eggs a child being genetically related to me is not that important to me but it is a consideration to make.

Re The waiting for the ball to get rolling refers to the time that I think LAs/agencies want couples to have in between discovering their fertility issues and starting the adoption process. The time limit is usually (well, was in my case) about the time after your stop treatment, it is usually six months. It is not related to when you start treatment. It is effectively (my own words) a 'cooling off' period that shows you have stopped fertility treatment. If you have never had fertility treatment this may not necessarily apply, but it may do.

Re I have zero experience in raising in a child, I'm ashamed to say. I was the youngest in a small family, and had no cousins around me growing up. Please do not be ashamed of your lack of experience, many new parents have little experience. But you will need to gain experience as part of the adoption process, you can ask social workers about how to do this (e.g. volunteering with any groups, babysitting for friends, getting involved in a toddler group - some are hard to do for people who suffer from fertility issues, some cost time and it is hard if you are working full-time but you will almost certainly be expected to show you have spent time around children.

Re I would hate my inexperience to result in making a child's situation worse, not better if you see what I mean. We all fear this, I think, and I was already a parent! It means you are taking this seriously. Reading up on child development, adoption and adopted children will help you feel more in control (hopefully).

re I'm also wondering what might be good resources to read.

I would certainly recommend:

Raising happy children by Jan Simpson and Jan Parker

www.amazon.co.uk/Raising-Happy-Children-every-parents/dp/0340734647?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

The Parenting Puzzle book

familylinks.org.uk/shop/schools-shop/the-parenting-puzzle

These books are not specifically about adoption but are very good.

Maybe other posters can recommend good books about parenting adopted children. You could start a new thread on Mumsnet in adoption and ask for ideas if you wanted to find out more. Sorry not to be more help, I am not much of a book person!

[Italiangreyhound]

In the past some newbies posted in a thread to introduce themselves to each other. It has fallen into somewhat disrepair but if you want to start it up again you could post an intro there and see if others join you??

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/adoptions/2092272-Newbies-Part-2

[WhyAmISoDaft]

Italian thanks so much for your post, that is so helpful.

You're right, we do need to think very carefully about withdrawing from IVF. Especially as we would be able to have two free rounds, and I know how fortunate we are in that respect.

I think I also want to make sure that for whatever reason, I don't have any regrets about not pursuing IVF in say, 5 years time (or even in 1.5 years time, when the opportunity will be gone!).

I think because we have both been so pro-adoption (and again, I know we're lucky as many couples aren't on the same page with that) that we have wondered whether it just makes sense to bypass IVF. I suppose we were also worried about the slim chance of it working, the invasive nature of the treatment, the emotional toll etc. But are those really reasons not to (at least) make the most of the two free rounds?

As you say, fertility treatment was a part of your journey. I'm starting to wonder whether it might be better to do the two rounds to make sure we've covered all options, if you like. Then - as we are not too heavily invested / hanging everything on IVF success - we can pick ourselves up if it doesn't work and proceed to adoption knowing that there will never be any regret / what ifs?

I don't see adoption as second best - it's just that we only have a 1.5 year window for the free IVF, so it makes sense to put that first, if we do proceed. I think that's what you're asking me to consider - am I right?

It's so helpful to have someone to mull it over with who's been through it - thank you.

Thanks also for the information about gaining experience with kids. I hadn't thought of that, and it's a fantastic idea.

And for the link to the newbie thread and the reading resources - so helpful!

[TeamAcorn]

Italian has amazing advice as always :) only bit to add is...We chose adoption over IVF. We still had to wait 6 months from being told we would not conceive naturally. I think whether you do IVF or not they still want you to have that period of grievance for loss of children related to you genetically.

[JennyTails]

It feels like older adoptive children who have more challenging needs would benefit from more experienced parents. I realise the huge commitment taking on the role of parent for a child, and I would hate my inexperience to result in making a child's situation worse, not better if you see what I mean.

It absolutely isn't automatically the case that the older the child, the more challenging the needs... And vice versa

And something to think about.... The full extent of an adopted child's needs often only become apparent slightly later... When they start school for example. This means that older children are often more of a 'known quantity' than younger children.

Just food for thought...

[WhyAmISoDaft]

Thanks TeamAcorn, yes I wondered if it might work like that. It makes sense too.

Can I ask what your reasons / thinking process was for bypassing the IVF?

I don't know anyone in real life who had this situation, so it's really helpful to talk to others.

[WhyAmISoDaft]

Thanks Jenny yes you're quite right, I did think that when I wrote it but sensed my post was already so long, so I went for the 'short hand' if you like, which is often inaccurate.

[TeamAcorn]

That's okay, I'm yet to meet anyone in real life whose made the same decision either.
It was for a lot of reasons really, and while I'll share, because they're personal to me I don't know if sharing will help much???. Firstly, I have an absent father who tried to return years later in life and half siblings I don't see etc. and I hadn't had an easy childhood either for various reasons I won't out myself on here for, all which gave me experiences that are comparable with a few of the experiences adopted children may have (My father certainly taught me genes dont make you a parent either). Secondly, I'd worked with older children for a number of years and having becoming like a second mother to some, knew I would have no problems treating a child who was not mine genetically, as if they were. Thirdly I'd had a lot of reproductive system issues over the years and as a couple we were infertile for 3 different reasons/factors, so I figured we'd probably be just as unlucky with IVF. I also knew how I'd be with IVF, I knew the emotional toll of my body failing me, not my mind (you need extreme emotional strength to deal with adoption but felt I could work on that, it wasnt down to luck with my body) would be a bigger blow to me and mine and my partners relationship. All in all I genuinely felt like everything that had happened in life had led to me adopting, like it was meant to be and I knew 100% I didn't care about genes and have never been fussed about being pregnant, giving birth or having a young baby.

My DH however...well none of that! He did a lot of reading and his main reason was simply he felt he could love a child that wasn't genetically linked, wasnt fussed by babies and didn't like the idea of IVF. Would he have made the same decision if he wasn't with me? I don't know tbh.

We're now parents to 2 pre-schoolers, it is hands down the hardest thing we've ever done but also the best and we have zero regrets about not trying IVF. However, I think we're in the minority for a good reason. If you have even the slightest doubt, do IVF first, there's no turning back. Adoption is hard, you don't want to think "maybe I made the wrong decision" when it's at its hardest points, which could be easy to do if there is any seed of doubt there in first place I reckon and there will definitely be those hard times.

And don't worry about your age, nearly everyone we meet whose adopted is in 40's as most have been through IVF :) (though not all obviously!)

[WhyAmISoDaft]

Team thank you so much! That's very very helpful. I could almost have written some of your post. Including the bit about your own experience showing you that blood isn't everything and doesn't guarantee a good relationship (or indeed any relationship). It's really interesting and I bet it explains why I just don't share that seemingly deep seated need to reproduce my own genes that others have. Because I / we know that having the same genes can mean very little. I too am also not fussed on the actual pregnancy experience either!

As far as we know, we only have one factor affecting our fertility (though undergoing IVF might of course reveal more). Based on what you and Italian have said, it seems perhaps silly to shut the door on something that has a very slim window of opportunity. I am starting to really think we need to reconsider this and I'll discuss it with my husband.

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts - it's been so so helpful

[TeamAcorn]

Good luck whyamisodaft, one way or another the next part of your journey to parenthood is beginning And in answer to your username question..you don't sound it lol!

[Italiangreyhound]

I don't see adoption as second best - it's just that we only have a 1.5 year window for the free IVF, so it makes sense to put that first, if we do proceed. I think that's what you're asking me to consider - am I right? - exactly.

Adoption isn't second best but time factors apply to all women using their own eggs, it is just biology (and in the case of free/NHS treatment it is a factor).

TeamAcorn Thank you, how kind.

Re We chose adoption over IVF. We still had to wait 6 months from being told we would not conceive naturally. I think whether you do IVF or not they still want you to have that period of grievance for loss of children related to you genetically. I think not going for IVF is an excellent option if it is what people want! IVF is emotionally, and sometimes physically and financially draining, so it is not for all. Whatever route we take is the route that is best for us, if we have had the chance to choose it freely.

JennyTails is very right. I know of people who adopted babies but they have encountered attachment issues. We adopted a three year old and, so far, no attachment issues at all.

WhyAmISoDaft I am sure you know that many adopted kids will come nowadays with some 'issues'. Ironically my birth dd also has some 'issues' so actually it is possibly true to say all kids may have 'issues'.... but.... children who come through the care system have sometimes been exposed to drugs and/or alcohol in vitro and may have experienced neglect or abuse and may have witnessed domestic violence etc. I say this because it is not just a factor that adopted children are not biologically or genetically related to their adoptive parents, it is also that many will start out in life with some problems and issues and all will experience a degree of trauma having lost birth parents and one or more sets of foster carers.

This simply means it is a harder kind of parenting, for some parents. So just to read up and be aware and take all these factors into consideration. But also to remember at the end of the day all kids are kids and any (however they arrive) can come with 'issues' and any, (however they arrive) can bring immense joy!

Best of luck. Keep posting and asking questions, if you wish.

[Velvet1973]

Hi whyamisodaft, I think everyone has pretty much covered your original questions but I just wanted to tell you of our situation. I'm 42 and dh 37 and we have adopted a beautiful baby boy. He was placed with us at 6 months under the foster to adopt scheme although not in its usual form. With foster to adopt the normal route is a newborn or very young baby that is to be placed with foster parents would be placed with adopters that are approved for foster to adopt if social services believe it will go on to adoption.
The risks are that it is an unknown and there could be a few different scenarios that would lead to the baby being returned to birth parents or family so you need to be prepared for that.
Our local authority had linked us with our son when he was just 2 months old but he was already in foster care and they were unsure of how things would work out with the courts so they decided to wait until the placement order was granted before moving him to us.
This is unusual because the point a placement order is made is usually the point that they will look for adoptive parents and start the linking/matching process. This would usually be a minimum of 3 months.
As we were already linked and because our son was 6 months everyone was very much in favour of placing him with us as foster to adopt to avoid him being 3 months older and 6 months being such a critical age in terms of development. So we fostered him whilst they arranged matching panel and everything else they needed to.
He was placed the week before Christmas so we feel unbelievably lucky to have experienced his first Christmas, first tooth, first time he crawled, first birthday, first words and first steps all things we never dared to dream we would.

[YouAreMyRain]

What JennyTails said.

I have two adopted DDs who were "normal" when placed at 1yo and 2yo.

They have LOTS of issues now at age 7 and 9. LOTS!

With older dc any issues are much more obvious and intervention and support can be accessed easier.

I know you want the baby stage, it's cute, we all do - but it goes so quick anyway, it's honestly gone in a flash. I think the long term is much more important. I have aged 20 yrs in the last 7!

If I could advise my younger self, knowing what I now know, I would say pursue IVF first.

It's not even necessarily the case that older adopters get offered older dc anyway, it depends very much on what dc are "available" in your area at that the time you are approved.

Good luck with whatever you choose

[HPFA]

I don't have personal experience of this but do know someone who went straight to adoption without trying IVF. She basically said that she didn't want to go through that whole process when the chances of it being successful were less than 50%. i think the exact words were " I didn't want to put myself through all that and probably not end up with a baby anyway" They adopted a little boy of 18 months and later his little brother.
Not someone I knew well enough to ask for more details , but it does show it's a decision other people have made.

[alabasium]

Just to second what a few others have put and you are perhaps aware about?? but babies have often experienced damage in utero or had extremely difficult/chaotic experiences in their very important first few early months. Because they cannot speak and are pre-verbal, it can be very difficult for them to process and make sense of these experiences. As an adopter of a baby (now junior school aged) it is wise not to assume that babies are the 'perfect' adoption - it can be tricky with younger and older children, but often in different ways. Adoption is a really hard path at times, because of earlier difficult experiences often being re-worked. However, I wouldn't have my life any other way. Good luck on your journey.

[akuabadoll]

Great advice here. I too adopted without trying IVF. In my case I was in my 30s did not even think about IVF for a second. I can't explain it. I had no interest at all. Adoption certainly not a last resort. We successfully adopted an infant. Then found we wanted him to have a sibling and adoption a second time around didn't look good. I did IVF twice and gave birth nearly two years ago to our second son at 41 years old. We live overseas and had no chance of free rounds of IVF regardless. It worked for us but I was lucky given my age. It was 'right' for us but I do feel I have two kids through the skin of my teeth, if you see what I mean. You can only do what feels right to you but I thought this version might give food for thought.

[SwashbucklingInBrooklyn]

I feel like I could have written your post, OP, a few years ago.
DH and I withdrew from the "IVF juggernaut" for no other reason than it felt like it wasn't for us. We went to an adoption open evening instead, and followed that path.
It may be that babies are rare in the system, but our DS was exactly 12 weeks old when we were linked and 18 weeks old when we went to Matching Panel. He came home at 20 weeks old.

I was 36, so not too old for either adopting OR IVF
I have never ever regretted not going for IVF - in fact, I am utterly thankful that we made that decision. DS is the best best best most amazing thing that's ever happened to us.

Well...until DD came along. Same birth father, different birth mother. She came home to us at 15 weeks old. No fta

[researchbookworm]

Just out of interest are you in the UK Swashbuckling? The ages your DC were placed are amazingly young if so?