Mumsnet founder Justine Roberts puts users’ questions to Shadow Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson

Mumsnet Asks... Bridget Phillipson

On Thursday 28th September, Mumsnet founder Justine Roberts sat down with Shadow Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson to ask her Mumsnet users' questions.

Users were invited to submit their questions online ahead of the interview, and a selection of questions on the most popular topics - including childcare, education funding and staff retention - were put to Bridget.

Please credit Mumsnet when using.

Transcript

Justine Roberts:

So straight off with the question from chaffinch77. Hi Bridget, it seems clear to me that many of the problems in our schools from RAAC to lack of staff to basic lack of basic stationary can only be sold by spending more money but the Labour Party repeatedly stresses that they don't have big spending plans. And Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves keep talking about reform rather than investment. How can you reform your way out of crumbling buildings or of not having enough textbooks for kids? How do you actually solve these problems without spending money?

Bridget Phillipson:

I completely recognize all of that in terms of the needing schools to be supported. I visit schools the length and breadth of the country and I hear the same messages wherever I go. I think recruitment and retention of teachers is also a really big issue that we're seeing. At the moment what we have set out is that we would end the tax breaks that private schools get and put that money directly into state education and delivering more teachers into our classrooms and better mental health support for our children. And also greater support when children are first starting at school around speech and language development and in the early years as well. I mean, so many of the problems that we're seeing all around are a longer term failure from the government to have a plan around education.

If Labour win the next election, if I'm the Education Secretary, it's my job to make sure that education is front and center because I do believe it's just central to the ambition that we would have for our country and how we make our country fairer and more equal and how we make sure that all children I get the chance to thrive and get the chance.

But there will be tough choices because the economy is in a total mess that we haven't seen growth of any in any meaningful way for years and years now and that will mean it will take us time to deliver everything that we would want to do.

We won't be able to do all of those changes from day one but in education there's actually quite a lot I believe could change that isn't just about spending more money whether that's the reform of Ofsted as one example.

You know some of the wider changes around curriculum I want to see in our schools are all children having access to a broad and balanced curriculum that includes music and sport and much more besides so you know, where we've got plans to spend money, we're clear about how we're going to fund it. But alongside that, I believe there's a lot of change that we could make very quickly if we won the trust to the British people and form that next government.

Justine Roberts:

So in sort of response to that, what you're sending a bit like there won't be much difference in a year's time because potterinthegarden asks what actual difference would we see in our schools in one year into a Labour government?

Bridget Phillipson:

I believe that we need to reset the relationship altogether between government and education. I don't believe it's been given the priority it deserves and certainly when I speak to parents but also teachers support staff.

That clear that a lot needs to change. So resetting that relationship, make education central once more to the work of government. That would be immediate. We would do that. We're obviously working on a manifesto, but alongside that we have to be absolutely ready to go from day one if we win that election and we are planning for how we would make change happen if we're really fortunate enough to form that next government.

So we would raise money through ending tax breaks for private schools. We would do that quickly to put that into state schools that would help us to deliver more teachers, that would allow us to deliver more mental health support. Also universal breakfast clubs in all of our primary schools. We would crack on with making that happen from day one.

Of course it would take time to roll some of this out, but we would see a rapid pace. We would want to make sure that the change that we need to see starts as quickly as possible. Because you know some of these problems are deep rooted and will take time to get it right and the sooner we start the sooner we can get there.

Justine Roberts:

And you mentioned mental health funding in your first answer. Teendivided says, given how mental health has such an impact on school attendance, are labor planning on significantly increasing funding for CAMS so young people get the early intervention support they need?

Bridget Phillipson:

What we've said as a first step is that we would deliver mental health hubs in communities so there's open access that people can get support as quickly as possible including young people.

But also about the mental health support within schools too. I know a lot of schools are having to invest some of their own budgets into making that happen because the demand is just so great around counselling and student welfare and much more. The commitment that we have is around a trained mental health counsellor in every secondary school as a first step to making sure that young people get support as quickly as possible. Around the whole system, the waiting lists. The time it takes for referral to treatment is completely unacceptable. I'm working closely with my colleague, Wes Streeting Shadow Health Secretary about how we seek to drive improvement around waiting times and earlier access to mental health.

Given the scale of what we're facing, I have to be upfront about the fact it will take us time to reform that system. I t breaks my heart when I speak to young people and parents who desperately want and desperately need access to mental health provision and it just isn't there and it's damaging too many in lives.

Justine Roberts:

Can it be done without significant increase in funding? And what is the actual number you're planning to spend?

Bridget Phillipson:

Labor governments always prioritize investment in our public services, our schools and our hospitals and that was certainly the record of the last Labour government and we were able to do that because we had a growing economy. And we could invest that money through growth into public services.

The situation that an incoming Labour government would face is more difficult than in 1997 because growth is negligible. That's why Rachel has said that our first priority has to be to grow the economy. If the economy had grown in the last 13 years, anything like it had done under the last Labour government, then we would have had more money to invest in our public services. But you know what we set out around mental health is a funded plan to deliver more support into schools which teachers and support staff in schools tell me.

They really want to see happening too because it of course it damages young people's life chances but it also has obviously an impact on their ability to learn and that's you know, damaging on so many levels. So yes, there will be money that we have set out to go into that. Of course, there will be more that we will need to consider. But we have to get our economy growing.

Justine Roberts:

Okay, and on retention, AllstarFacilier says, I'm a teacher and I'm considering leaving due to how things are currently. We're battling poor behavior. I'm verbally abused on the daily basis. But no support other than being told to keep even the most difficult children in school.

On top of this, we have insanely high targets and have lost faith in the exam system after this round of GCSEs being so poorly marked. Some of our exam papers went up by 2 grades when we requested remarks. What are your plans to retain teachers?

Bridget Phillipson:

Sadly, I do hear that right across the country. I know that so many of our teachers feel really undervalued and under appreciated for the work that they're doing.

I think we have to have a fundamental reset of that relationship between government and the profession. I think we need to value and recognize the professionalism of teachers. I don't feel the current government have been doing that, often using very dismissive and derogatory language in talking about people who have dedicated their lives to making sure that young children and young adults get a really great start.

We've set out commitments around more teachers into our classrooms. I know many teachers are having to cover classes in subjects particularly at secondary level where they don't have the level of expertise they would like, schools are more dependent upon supply teachers because of budget pressures.

I think we also do need to look more carefully at some of the challenges that we're seeing about the need to deliver more flexible working opportunities into teaching, you know, we see a big drop off particularly in the number of women in their thirties and forties who are leaving teaching because they find they're just struggling to combine work with with family life and home life. I think we need to have a conversation about that and I want to work with the profession, work with trade unions representing teachers and support staff too.

We've got a really important role to play. And delivering better working conditions. And I hear those issues around behavior and attendance wherever I go. Some of that I believe is linked to the pandemic and we never had a proper plan from the government coming out of the pandemic to address some of those challenges that were already bubbling beneath the surface, but have become more pronounced coming out of the pandemic. And it was now, Prime Minister, the then Chancellor, who seemed to say that we'd maxed out on support that would be available for young people. I think that was completely negligent. And you know that is not the approach that we would have taken, but we are where we are now when, you know, we'll need to focus if we win the election on delivering the support and the change that the teachers and school support staff deserve.

Justine Roberts:

Yeah, and obviously culture is important, but the elephant in the room here again is pay and Aishah231 says, Bridget, what is your position on teachers pay? Did you support calls for fully funded pay rises in line with inflation. Do you think we will continue to attract skilled professionals into teaching without an attractive pay reward?

Bridget Phillipson:

It is obviously increasingly more of a challenge. Not least because, you know, especially in some of the the subjects were shortages and most acute. People have options in the private sector too and and see some of the balance they can sometimes strike. Around flexible working as well. I know that, you know, teaching is such an important, you know, and such an incredibly important role and we all of us remember the teachers that shaped and influenced our lives and the positive impact that they have.

So I think yes it is partly about raising the status of the profession. I want to see teachers given more time for the professional development and training that's an issue that's raised time and again when I visit schools around the country.

You know it's hard to look at the numbers when it comes to real terms. Pay cuts that teachers have suffered over the last 13 years and not recognised as real deep dissatisfaction. About the fact that you know it's a skilled professional job where they should be supported. I wouldn't be able to wave a magic wand and commit to a figure right now, but what I would have done would be to have a serious process of negotiation with the profession to reach something that we can all live with. We got there in the end the current education secretary finally resolved that dispute almost a year after it first took place and that again caused further needless disruption to our children's education and again part of that challenge around attendance to so it's a process of negotiation you seek to get to a position that you where you can all agree.

But the record of the last labor government was real terms, increases for teachers I'd love to be able to deliver that again, the economic circumstances are tough. So I can't make that kind of commitment. And I wouldn't, you know, I don't think it will be right to negotiate and look to a figure outside of that negotiating room. But I do want to make sure that we're delivering brilliant graduates into our classrooms and that people don't just come but they stay as well and that's why we've set out policy around retention payments for early careers teachers to recognise. The additional work that they've put into their teacher training and their professionalism as a first step towards rebuilding that relationship with the profession. And driving high standards in our schools because the way that you get the outcomes for children is through brilliant teaching.

Justine Roberts:

Thanks. And MumSass asked on the RAAC issue, will Labour provide funding for schools affected by RAAC and additional funding to support children who have had their education severely disrupted because of it. My son is at a school in Yorkshire with RAAC. He has gone back to a poor offer of online but not live learning and no idea how long it will last for or any clarity on whether the funds being secured for temporary classrooms or a rebuild of the school. My son tells me it feels like he doesn't matter. Will he matter to you if Labour are in power??

Bridget Phillipson:

Absolutely. And I visited a number of schools in England where they're affected in exactly the same way and it is shocking and shameful that after all of the disruption of the pandemic.

Too many young people are going back to that kind of remote learning or a combination of the 2 or even where it's face to face, it's being done in a community centre or within the lunch hall because the classrooms are out of action. What I've been really, really pushing for and I've been pushing around this for months because I've been concerned about the condition of our schools estate absolutely RAAC but beyond that you know asbestos, drainage issues, roofs that are falling in. You know what, there are thousands of schools in our country that have gone beyond their design life and should have long since being replaced. I've been pushing the government on that point because we until quite recently didn't have the condition survey that the government had undertaken to try and establish the full scale of this. They resisted that, but we got there in the end.

But we still actually don't have the full scale of what's going on around RAAC so you know in opposition what we're trying to do is to push the government to establish the scale of the problem. It's hard to set out a plan for what happens next, given that the government are being far from transparent about the full extent of all of this and My fear is that they hope that they can just kind of kick it beyond the election and then that it might become someone else's problem. I want to see mitigations put in place immediately. And whatever you know the government said that they'll do whatever is needed to fund schools to put in place those mitigations.

I know that this is still not happening in some cases. But alongside that, I plan to get RAAC out of schools and actually to rebuild the schools that are affected.

The government have said that they have a plan for that. I've yet to see that plan and then it's hard for me to identify and to set out an alternative position given that we don't actually know the full extent of it. And you know, there's been a lot of secrecy from the government on RAAC and it's sadly children who are losing out and you know, it's a desperate, desperate situation and we're gonna keep pushing on this.

Had the government not cancelled the Labour school rebuilding program when they first came in in 2010 then we would be in a stronger position now.

Justine Roberts:

Yeah, thanks. And you mentioned at the beginning, VAT on private schools and we've had a few questions on that on. So here's one from Iftheydonlygetashifton on. Hi Bridget, thanks for doing this. Regarding VAT on private school fees has the cost of this on the state been factored into that 1.7 billion?

Bridget Phillipson:

Yes it has and if you look we've looked to the report from the Independent Institute for Fiscal Studies who looked at how much the tax breaks could raise and then looked at what might happen if students were to leave the private sector. So they considered all of that and their conclusion was that the policy and the shift would raise 1.3 to 1.5 billion pounds a year in revenue. So I think that's an independent costing from a respected independent organization. And we're using it as the basis, for, you know, for our work. That's a lot of money and you know that would allow us to deliver 65,000 new teachers, better mental health support in our schools, more support around teacher training and development, get more support around early years too, so more effective speech and language interventions when children is starting at primary school.

I just think it's a simple question of political priorities. I don't think the tax breaks private schools enjoy can be justified and you know the independent evidence is absolutely clear about how much we could raise and how we could then choose to use that money differently.

Justine Roberts:

And as Imasucker says, do you think the state education system is ready for the potential influx of 90,000 students from the private sector who can't afford the 20% fee increase proposed by Labour.

Bridget Phillipson:

Well, I don't recognize that number. I think that's a number that the private schools lobby used and it's certainly not a number we've used.

Justine Roberts:

What do you think the right number is, Bridget?

Bridget Phillipson:

Well, the IFFS have estimated, I've done a couple of estimates but much, much lower than that.

But actually alongside that we're seeing demographic shift. Across, you know, in across our schools, we're in a position now where you know, many people know that schools in their community are reducing their roles or taking out classes or in some cases schools are closing because we that kind of demographic change that we had earlier on.

Around the turn of the century is now, is now kind of feeding through. So for example space, I don't recognize, you know, that that same challenge. And you know private schools. I think could well see are not required to pass on that VAT to parents and I think could choose to. And make different choices themselves about how they offer different kinds of provision. Everyone in recent years has had to make cutbacks. Many of, you know, many of the people that are taking taking part in this discussion.

We're facing difficult choices every day about what they can and can't afford in the middle of a cost of living crisis and I think private schools are no different. And they should reflect on where they could be making savings to.

Justine Roberts:

And just on this issue of charitable status, which I think there's perhaps a bit of confusion about, LimeBasilandMandarin says you previously said that charitable status for most private schools is something that should come to an end. Do you still believe that?

Bridget Phillipson:

I've always been focused on how we end the tax breaks and how we then use that money to deliver higher standards in our state schools and ending charitable status was not a necessary part of doing that. We can press ahead with ending the tax breaks relatively quickly and then put that money into delivering better outcomes for children. So the policy is unchanged in that regard. So, Labour is not going to remove charitable status for private schools. It's not necessary to raise the money that we want to raise through the tax breaks that we can then put into state education, which is where, of course, the vast majority of children in our country will go to school.

Justine Roberts:

Great, thanks. So moving on to childcare, obviously a few questions on childcare, being Mumsnet. And selseywilhemina says, when will we have more detail and what labor will do on childcare? I was really pleased when you previously hinted at universal provision and wholesale reform that things seem to have gone pretty quiet recently.

Bridget Phillipson:

It's performing childcare in the early years system overall is a really big priority for me. I mean, it's how you deliver better outcomes for children. You know, it's the evidence is clear that you know, support in the early years makes the biggest impact kind of coming through schools and young people's lives, but I also know and recognize the pressures that lots of families are under of right now, particularly women, you know it's not always fair, but that's just a fact that it's often women that end up feeling the consequences of a childcare system that isn't providing what they need and forces very difficult choices around around work and the number of hours that women in particular can work and the kinds of jobs that they achieve.

So there's an economic argument. There's also an argument about children's life chances and I think because it's like slightly lost sight of that and I believe strongly in the need to kind of drive up standards in the early years in childcare sector and provide greater quality and greater support so that children are arriving at school. I was talking about also about how we better integrate early years into the education system overall, you know, so many countries recognize that early years should be part of the wider education system and recognized as such in a way that we just don't have in this country where there is an unnecessary separation.

We will be seeing more as part of our manifesto, we've got a Labour party conference coming up, so we're talking more about our plans around education there as well but it absolutely remains a key part of what I'm committed to delivering. You'll know that it's the first step towards that we, I set out Labor's plans for Universal Breakfast Clubs in all primary schools.

So recognizing that parents childcare needs aren't just about the early years as important as they are but about around the school day as well and the pressures that many parents will experience around drop off and pick up. So delivering breakfast clubs in all our primary schools would be a first step and I think would really help.

But alongside that again the evidence the independent evidence is clear that it provides children not just with a good start to the day, but delivers better academic outcomes too and supports issues around behavior and attendance to you know giving children that softer start.

So the government announced you know in the budget additional money to go into the system. My worry is that without a plan for reform alongside it, particularly around the workforce and how we get and support more people into the sector with good terms and conditions and good progression, parents are going to feel badly let down when that doesn't materialize. But they put more money in and that does provide different options about how you choose to reform a system. And I want to move away from the hours-based approach that we've got at the moment because I just don't believe it's working.

Justine Roberts:

Right. NewMum0305 says, are you planning to reverse the changes to childcare ratios?

Bridget Phillipson:

I wouldn't have brought them in and I don't support, the changes that that was almost universal across the sector as well that you know many providers have said that they won't be following, they won't be going ahead with those changes. I don't want to look and see where we had got to and whether those changes had really taken effect alongside that to review the system overall because you know there's a real pressure around you we talk about recruitment of retention in schools. The pressures in our early years sector are really acute. And you know increasingly including in the men maintain nurseries will tell me that they're losing staff to retail and to other jobs because it's just not bad and recognized so There's a lot overall that will need to change. And considering ratios as a part of that wider reform. Is necessary but we wouldn't we wouldn't have done that I just I don't believe it will it's what parents want or what children need or certainly what in many in the sector will be delivering in any event.

Justine Roberts:

Right. So likely to go is what I'm taking from that. samsays345 says, Bridget, what do you think about rebranding childcare as early education?

Bridget Phillipson:

It always seems crazy to me that during some of the most formative years of a child's life we don't prioritize making sure they're given the developmental guidance and education they need to flourish. We pay the people who work in the sector at pistons, give them no real status since not getting right for kids, especially those from more disadvantage backgrounds during those years causes major problems in later years. So what about rebranding? I recognize that frustration, I hear it a lot. I mean particularly for younger children it can sometimes be that balance of care and early education that obviously shifts as children become toddlers and the focus becomes more on some of those developmental goals. I do think we need to recognize the professionalism. And the expertise of people working in the sector.

But I actually want them to be supported for what they what they're doing and I want them to have a voice and have status too.

I think the risk of getting slightly bogged down in the languages, parents will often talk about childcare. You know, I think it's important we meet people where they are. There is a really important aspect around early education. I tried to talk about the 2. Because you know some parents just won't speak in the language of early education important. All that is and I think it's for me it's more important about seeking to try and understand what needs to change as a part of that but yes I'm going to do recognize around the issues around state this and progression and the sector overall. And that is a real challenge.

Justine Roberts:

Okay, thanks. Now moving on to, sex and gender and the way that's being taught in schools. ArabellaScott says, hi, Bridget, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the teaching and implementation of gender ideology in schools, particularly given the conservatives failure to clarify the guidance.

Bridget Phillipson:

Yeah, so as Arabella says the government are currently consulting on this, I think it's right that they keep areas of policy under review. I think many parents have concerns about what's being taught within their child's schools and they absolutely should have access to material. They should be able to raise those concerns. When speaking personally, my children's schools have always communicated very effectively what they're teaching ahead of time. They've shared with us materials, they've told us. I recognize it's a difficult, it can be a difficult issue for schools. You know, schools are seeking to navigate what can be some, you know, tricky territory sometimes, but I think it's about primarily with sex and relationships, education, children, understanding yes, the basic concepts, but also understanding issues in an age-appropriate way around relationships, around consent, around our place in the world, around the changes that you know young people experience as they go through puberty and onwards.

I mean, that's what's more important and I do find it frustrating that rather than seeking to navigate this in a way that's responsible, recognizing the importance of sex and relationships education and the importance of children's well-being, the government is increasingly seeking to prioritise making it a headline grabbing issue when I think we just need to take a step back and make sure that where there is guidance in place, it's working for schools, parents feel involved and that young people do have access to high quality sex and relationships education. I think that is a welcome and important change.

Justine Roberts:

As bonfirelady says, lots of children are currently still learning, whether in PHSC or within individual subjects, that everyone has a gender identity and it's possible to choose which gender you'd like to be when you grow up where schools enable social transition to experiment with these feelings, changing pronouns. Or to an opposite sex name. This forces the other children to accept a belief that they may not hold and it risks locking the transitioning child onto a pathway of medicalization for life and irreversible changes to their bodies. And that's obviously covered in the CASS review. What would, a Labour government do to balance the teaching of the 2 different beliefs of gender identity and sex immutability?

Bridget Phillipson:

Difficult issues that both navigating quite complex territory. I think my starting point if I was actually Secretary of State would be around young people's wellbeing. I think that just gets lost too often in the discussion. The government have said that they're consulting around guidance for schools on a range of issues, you know, what you've just described there, but also alongside that. The questions that school leaders have been asking quite reasonably about how they balance their responsibilities, for example where it might apply to single-sex provision whether that's you know changing facilities and also the role of teachers particularly alongside parents in supporting young people who are experiencing issues around their well being or experiencing distress. I mean that can apply in the case of young people who are questioning their identity, but of course speaks to a much wider issue that we're facing at the moment around young people's well-being and their mental health too. It looks to me like the government might not conclude that process this side of the election. It's all gone rather quiet. And that would, you know, any guidance will be subject to consultation if that were to be published.

I do think we need guidance and clarity. I do hear that from school leaders. If we were elected, we would have to start that process. So working through the challenges that we see but what need the balance and the balances that we need to strike and then consult on that to get it right. I genuinely do believe there is a way that we can do that effectively, balancing those challenges, recognizing the concern but also making sure that young people's well-being is properly supported and protected. I don't believe we do that by having loud and noisy conversations on the front page of national newspapers.

So I'd want to take a step back, balance that, make sure that we do have an open discussion about the challenges that you know young people can experience. Growing up it is no joke, for young women in particular, you know I remember it myself, it's tough, it's a tough time growing up as a teenager, going through changes and I am worried for example about the drop off in women's sport and you know when they reach their teenage years and not taking part in sport physical activity that has impacts, you know, their whole life long. It's really important to lay those foundations for the rest of your life and therefore discussions about changing facilities and so on do have to take account of that too but I know that schools are trying to navigate this right now making sure that for example in the case of changing facilities they're making sure that all young people can feel safe and respected at school. And I think, you know, our position more widely on this area of policy is that I want, you know, trans people throughout their lives to be to be supported and free from discrimination. But alongside that we do need to make sure that there are single-sex spaces. I used to manage a women's refuge. You know, I recognize the trauma that women who've experienced sexual violence and domestic abuse continue to go through and it's clear that's why there was was provision in the law to ensure that single sex provision could be put in place where that's necessary.

Justine Roberts

So lasttraintoLondon says currently in government fines hard working parents who take their kids out of school for a week's holiday, often due to the unaffordable prices. Or the fact that not everyone is lucky enough to work a regular office type job where holiday can be taken at convenient times. Surely in case is where the child has otherwise excellent attendance, creating an adversarial system of fines and punishments isn't either in the spirit of encouraging partnership with parents over schooling or productive in sending the right message. I note the current laws also strip headteachers of the ability to use their judgment or discretion in all but the most extreme cases. Is there a better middle ground available here which also supports hard working parents? What's your position on this?

Bridget Phillipson:

I do recognize that the costs of holidays go up massively, you know, during, during school holidays and you know, and given the cost of living crisis, families quite rightly want to spend time together and what to take a holiday.

However, you know attendance at school being at school for children does really really matter and the figures that we're seeing at the moment around school attendance and especially persistent non-attendance from a significant minority of children is a real concern and I do think has to be a focus for government. I'm not I'm not convinced that lowering fines in those circumstances is the right way to go I don't believe it's necessary the most effective way that you support families. Often children can be struggling to get to school for a range of different reasons. But I'm afraid I do believe that being at school regularly does matter and the parents shouldn't be seeking to take holidays outside of term time. I think there is more that could we could look to do with the industry around how we manage some of this. And I know some schools sometimes will stagger school holidays or will have slightly different different term dates to try and make it a bit easier for parents. But the problem that we're seeing at the moment around school attendance, I'm afraid, just means that a focus on getting children to be at school regularly has to be the priority. Yeah, and if not fines, then how do, how do you go about that different reasons. But I'm afraid I do believe that being at school. Regularly does matter and the parents should be seeking to take holidays outside of term time. I think there is more that could we could look to do with the industry around how we manage some of this. And I know some schools sometimes will stagger school holidays or will have slightly different different term dates to try and make it a bit easier for parents. But the problem that we're seeing at the moment around school attendance, I'm afraid, just means that a focus on getting children to be at school regularly has to be the priority. Yeah, and if not fines, then how do, how do you go about that?

You know, I'm not saying that there will be circumstances and which, you know, fines are necessary, but I think just looking to increase fines or to levy more finds isn't going to deal with some of the or entrenched issues that we're seeing, you know, whether it's young people's mental health or you know, some issues around children who have special educational needs and disabilities, where they're out of school. Cost of living crisis. I hear increasingly that sometimes all the siblings are being asked to stay at home to look after younger siblings because parents are struggling or because they are having to work. Schools will be doing what they can to support families and you know, increasing cases of anxiety and mental health concerns around young people are sometimes a barrier to that as well. So again, having timely access to mental health support, I think is really, really important alongside that too.

Justine Roberts:

Okay, and on special educational needs, TeenyBop8 says, hi, Bridget, I'm sure you're aware about the national crisis concerning the lack of special school places. Consequently, the number of children who are either not receiving an education at all or one that doesn't meet their needs. How do Labour plan to tackle this issue?

Bridget Phillipson:

I know when I speak to parents across the country has become increasingly adversarial means that parents and children are not getting the support that should be their right but also alongside that schools are after under often under a lot of pressure in trying to support children with complex needs. Especially within mainstream. I think there's more that we need to do to support staff within schools within mainstream schools around training and development. They tell me they regard that as being really important.

I think early identification of special educational needs and disabilities is really important as well. So one of the plans that we've set out is around additional speech and language support when children starting at school, a very effective intervention that's been identified that will allow for us to identify children who may have additional needs at a much earlier point. The government announced some reforms but that's happening rather slowly. So I would want those, you know, the changes that can happen in the short term to take place to deal with some of those pressures around specialist places. But also some of the changes within the system to make it more effective so parents don't have to wait months and months on end to have their case and often, and you know, to get the, in some cases to get to an education health and care plan. I am concerned that the government appeared to be setting arbitrary targets around reducing those EHCP contrary to what they'd previously said but I think the system as it currently stands is adversarial, there's too much pressure there and it will require a reform overall but I think anyone who has worked through the system as a parent or has been through the system more recently in the education sector will recognize that some of that change will take time. And I think there are challenges and more needs to happen as well within some of our mainstream settings.

Justine Roberts:

TravellingSpoon says, I'd like to know how you would hold local authorities to account that break the law with regard to the EHCP process going months over the mandatory timeframe that the law allows, what plans do you have there?

Bridget Phillipson:

I mean the system in many cases is just broken down and I hear a lot here as an MP in my constituency as well as the Shadow Secretary of State that it takes a long time. That you know I think the challenges around how some of the funding is delivered and how that is made to happen. So we will need to to review all of that but I understand the frustrations. I know the impact it has on lots of families and children in particular.

And you know it is a broken system that the government if not prioritized fixing it means that if we win the election it doesn't look like much change will have happened in the short term, but I am absolutely determined that all children have the opportunity to thrive and that includes children with complex needs or with additional needs. And making sure they have every opportunity in life where at the moment it feels very very difficult.

Justine Roberts:

Okay, thank you. Now, a couple of questions on faith schools. Good Labour plan to stop the creation of new schools that select by religion. I'm fervently in favor of religious freedom of expression but do not understand why segregating children by religion is desirable.

Bridget Phillipson:

So I went to a Catholic secondary school myself. I think faith schools are important part of the system that you know parents, parents value and body faith schools, they value mainstream schools as well and and much more besides. I don't think the priority really given the demographic shift that we're seeing at the moment will be around opening up more provision. We're likely to see the contraction of places and provision in the years to come, but best schools are an important part of the schools landscape and that would continue and deliver.

Justine Roberts:

And, school places. MKGMom says every school in our borough is oversubscribed. Some children are being sent to schools much too far away from home, would Labour have any realistic plans to tackle this issue and if so how?

Bridget Phillipson:

Part of the problem that we have at the minute is the lack of coordination. And especially the role for local authorities in being involved in some of that place planning.

That's going to become more acute when we see some of those demographic changes that we've been talking about. So, I want to look again at the rules for local authorities in trying to coordinate some of that to make it. Better process overall because you know, there have been examples where in some cases one school might be closing yet another school would be expanding it's capacity. There isn't currently a way of managing that process effectively. That does need to change and I think we need to look again at the rule for local councils and how we manage some of that, with the changes we've seen. In recent years we've ended up with with a fragmented system.

Justine Roberts:

And I think one sort of getting towards the end, but a kind of philosophical question for you for. Much of the fundamental issue with the provision of education is the influence of political ideology. By governments, ministers with no background in education make sweeping changes based on personal agendas. Could education be run by the educators? Prioritize learning over moulding children into workers? And are you gonna be one of those ministers that comes in and makes sweeping changes based on your personal agenda? So will you listen to teachers?

Bridget Phillipson:

Well, I won't be getting up my red pen like some conservative ministers to, to impose my, you know, my kind of pet projects in in that sense. Some of it becomes far too bulk down in the micro detail of it. I think we kind of ministers have lost sight of the bigger picture.

I do want to see a review of curriculum and assessment, that's why Labour is committed to an expert review. But that has to be lead and informed by best practice here and from around the world and also drawing on the expertise of people working in the sector. As politicians, it's their job to set a direction. And to, you know, set out the changes they believe are best for the country now that would apply right across the broad labour or conservative.

But I'm not a teacher and you know I don't have an education background. I do want to listen to the profession in delivering that we might not always agree but I think we should have frank and open discussion about what we believe needs to change but work on the basis of kind of mutual respect and mutual understanding. I don't feel we've been in that position now for quite a few years and we've had countless education secretaries in that period and education just hasn't been a priority.

So. Where we make change, I want to make sure it's done carefully and properly with due consideration not brushing ahead, but also looking to what young people need. Both now and into the future. I think a big challenge that we will face is just about having the right staff.

In the sector overall, you know, both in terms of support staff who I believe deserve a much bigger voice. And that's why I committed to giving, you know, bringing back. The school support staff negotiating body to give school support staff a stronger role within our system and allowed a voice than they have at the moment. Our teaching assistants, our caretakers, you know, everyone working. Support our schools. But alongside that, I think teachers need to be, need to be valued for what they're doing and I think that needs to be. The first starting point. Education is you know, the way in which she can transform lives and you know such such an important means by which we break down those barriers to opportunity that too many of our young people still face and early years in particular will be a full for me because that is where we will make a really big impact but yes, absolutely working with people across the sector to deliver the change I think that so many of us really want to see. And want to make sure that our children get a great start in life.

Justine Roberts:

Well, we're gonna draw a close there. I think we've asked you before. I think you're one of those rare people we've asked the biscuit question to and you've said you don't really like biscuits although I have to say there's quite a high proportion of Labour people who seem to not like biscuits. But are you prepared to update that answer or is it still your position that not really a biscuit fan?

Bridget Phillipson:

If there was a biscuit on the table, I'd probably struggle to resist eating it. But if I went to the kitchen now and had to choose, I'd probably go for crisps if I'm honest. Alright, so just not really, I don't think they've even got any biscuits in the cupboard. Okay. I'm just not biscuits in the cupboard. I'm just not a biscuit person.

Justine Roberts:

Okay, that's, no worries, each to their own. Thank you so much, Bridget, for all your time and very thorough answers. Thank you. It's been a pleasure talking to you and good luck at conference.