OAP home allows residents to book sex workers

(262 Posts)
Charlezee Tue 29-Jan-13 01:43:27
OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 30-Jan-13 21:30:04

But the men are simpley responding to an offer of sex for sale, by an adult, with full bodily-autonomy. And they pay well for it. I can't see that earning/paying probably £50 for 30 minutes, £100 an hour is exploitation.

OMC I find the examples you give interesting because they highlight to me the problems with consent that are encountered when money enters the equation - basically you end up with a load of desperately poor people who feel it's their only option. There are striking parallels with prostitution.

From The Guardian - Kidneys for sale: poor Iranians compete to sell their organs ...

In order to advertise her kidney, Marzieh has written her blood type and her phone number on pieces of paper and has posted them along the street close to several of Tehran's major hospitals, home to the country's major kidney transplant centres.

Others have done the same. Some have written in big letters or in bright colours to attract attention; some have sprayed their information on the walls of public or even private properties.

"Kidney for sale," reads one ad, carrying the donor's blood type, O+, and a mobile number, with a note emphasising "urgent", insinuating that the donor is prepared to consider discounts.

From this rather good blog article by a living kidney donor ...

If one is only concerned about would-be recipients, or one benefits from organ transplants, then a kidney market is something to consider. But if one believes that all people deserve equal consideration, then harvesting a major organ from a living person in return for money or other incentives is not acceptable. Pragmatically, there is simply no way to control for abuses and manipulations.

As JustAHolyFool points out, people who have real choice don't tend to sell sex, just as they don't tend to sell their kidneys.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 30-Jan-13 21:32:54

Selling sex doesn't deprive you of anything, though, especially not an organ.

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 21:34:32

Would you do it, OldLady ?

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 30-Jan-13 21:35:19

Yes.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 30-Jan-13 21:36:21

Though I would probably have had a bigger market 30 years ago. One could still make money at any age, any shape, though.

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 21:39:24

Really? And the fact that you're very likely to be raped/beaten up/ridiculed by society and generally treated like shit doesn't put you off?

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 30-Jan-13 21:50:51

Ridiculed by society; wouldn't happen if I were discreet about it. I'm not proposing hanging out in RLDs.

(And then there's the issue of why society would ridicule me, perhaps because sex workers are routinely presented as drug addicts, pimped, abused, and incapable of making their own choices? Why would society ridicule a victim?)

The risks of being raped/beaten up are very, very small in the indoor-working scene, and as I would work for myself (no pimp, agency or brothel) I could refuse any client I didn't like the sound of.

Yes, I've thought about it, I've read about it, I know the up to date facts.

But I'm very happy where I am. smile

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 21:54:05

"The risks of being raped/beaten up are very, very small in the indoor-working scene" - mm, really? Do you think so?

I think your attitude is really dangerous to be honest. And quite naive.

Why would society ridicule you? Well, feminists wouldn't, so maybe you're better hedging your bets with us.

Leithlurker Wed 30-Jan-13 21:54:52

So getting back to the op and away from the ad nausea debate on prostitution, old people having sex that is supplied by someone who is not doing it for love or from people in any kind of relationship with the old person at all.

Is there an issue with that?

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 21:58:03

Sorry the debate was so dull for you, Leith . After all, prostitution is at the heart of this debate.

Is your question about people who are paying for sex or not?

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 30-Jan-13 21:59:25

You are, of course, welcome to think what you like about my naivety or otherwise, but I am fairly sure that the risks of working the way I would are small enough to be taken. I could be hit by a runaway bus next time I go out in the car, there are loads of risks in life and even staying in bed all day isn't without risk.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 30-Jan-13 22:02:41

Justa, would you mind if I start a thread (about a thread) on why prostitutes are subject to public ridicule? Because I agree they are, Dr Magnanti comments that even now she gets abused via email etc, but I'm not sure why.

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 22:05:46

Why would I mind? confused

It's not me who ridicules prostitutes, any hatred or scorn I have is reserved for the men who pay for sex.

I think it is very foolish to think that you could somehow control the type of men you end up with. Look at the number of women on here who MARRY men who end up raping/abusing them. If they can't tell, after years of knowing them, how are you supposed to based on a phone call/meeting?

Leithlurker Wed 30-Jan-13 22:06:40

Yes it was boring as it was rehashing the same thoughts and ideas that always come out when any thing that is seen as prostitution related gets put up on here. I was trying if at all possible to move beyond the standard views and in to thinking much more about where the sight of contest actualy lies.

So if men and women were either recruited as volunteers receiving only travel expenses, OR if a network of surrogates were to be employed by the NHS in a theraputic role. Would the same objections exist not to the general sexualisation of society, but specifically to the act of two adults having sex where no money is changed hands but it is seen as a service or a therapeutic activity?

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 22:08:50

This is a discussion board. The same discussions will come up again and again.

No, it is still not ok if no money changes hands. It is still a service, it is still exploitative.

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 22:09:53

And, by the way, it's quite rude to tell people what they can and can't discuss. If you don't want to join in, fine, just pose a different question. But telling people they are boring you is incredibly off.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 30-Jan-13 22:13:10

Well, because I'd be referencing your comment on this thread, and I wouldn't want to be rude.

The women who end up married to abusive men, are not abused from the start of the relationship, are they? And spending an hour or two, or even overnight, isn't the same thing as marrying someone. I could walk at any time, because I'd only meet in hotel rooms, which are fairly public should I feel the need to scream.

badinage Wed 30-Jan-13 22:25:56

I want the purchase of sex to be be illegal in this country so I am naturally opposed to what's happening at this nursing home.

But there are some angles about this I'm especially interested in. The workers at the home seem to be doing this as a means of escaping sexual assaults, in the naive and dangerous belief that men who pay for sex are going to be less likely to assault them in the future. There is no evidence to support that belief at all, whereas there is more evidence to suggest that men who are already sexually aggressive are likely to get worse if the objectification of women becomes acceptable and normalised.

The other angle is about procurement and engaging with suitable suppliers. Any other service supplied to municipal homes - even if it's being paid for by the residents - is vetted quite rigorously. Service providers often have to be CRB checked and must prove that they are running a legitimate business and paying tax. I doubt very much that such checks were made by the care home workers who procured sex on behalf of the residents.

There are also the other residents' rights to consider here too. Many of the residents are likely to be decent men who would be horrified that sex is being paid for in their home, with unvetted people being allowed to trade on the premises. A few misogynists' perceived right to buy sex does not trump theirs.

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 22:28:10

Well I don't see that there's any need to reference my common.

My point is that you don't know who you're meeting. And if you really think that you can just walk away/scream to escape rape...come on. Really? If that was the case, no-one would ever be raped.

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 22:28:21

My comment*

Leithlurker Wed 30-Jan-13 22:31:37

Actualy Just I was taking it back you see not interrupting, not derailing, not telling anyone what they can and cannot say. Look at the title and then look at the top three or four posts, the discussion about prostitution could be said to be the one that derailed the thread, others before were talking about old people having sex, and how a level of un addressed abuse towards male and female staff in care homes exists.

To your other point,please explain your thinking about who is being exploited and how in my two scenario, bearing in mind the specific caveat that I put in place about the issue not being about the general sex industry or the pornification of society or even how women are objectified. I am trying to be very precise.

OneMoreChap Wed 30-Jan-13 22:34:53

* badinage Wed 30-Jan-13 22:25:56*

I want the purchase of sex to be be illegal in this country so I am naturally opposed to what's happening at this nursing home.

But it isn't.
And as it isn't... should you stop people doing it.

I mean, I'm horrified that people drink to excess... but since it's legal it's hard to make, say Aunt Maud, stop doing it in the privacy of her room, however I feel about it.

JustAHolyFool Wed 30-Jan-13 22:35:29

Hardly derailing. Derailing is when you talk about something that is nothing to do with the discussion. Prostitution is what this discussion is about.

You can't talk about your scenario without talking about the sex industry or anything else you mention. The whole lot is inter-linked. Why are women able to control their urges? It's not because they're not there, believe me. It's because it is acceptable for men to abuse women, very often in subtle and socially acceptable ways.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 30-Jan-13 22:37:34

Hmm, OK, I was thinking I'd say something like, "On another thread it was mentioned in passing that prostitutes are often subject to public ridicule. This got me wondering about why this is so..." blah, blah, blah, haven't thought it through properly yet. I wouldn't name you, but thought it polite to check you'd be OK with it.

As to leaving/screaming, the difference would be that in the most common date/aquaintance/partner rape scenarios (we both know that stranger-in-the-alley is rare, though it does happen) the woman trusts, or wants to trust, the man. She is viewing him as safe, and the sheer shock when he rapes is enough to silence her, make her question her own judgement. For me, simply feeling uneasy would be enough to terminate the appointment, probably return my fee, and leave. I would have no emotional investment in "wanting him to like me".

I'm probably not explaining it well, but the dynamics are quite different.

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