Omnibus TV programme on Andrea Dworkin's Pornography work

[thunderboltsandlightning]

Worth watching whatever side of the pornography debate you are on. If you're anti-porn it will inspire you, because Andrea Dworkin is just amazing, if you're pro-porn it will let you hear actual anti-porn arguments rather than the strawmen that are usually used to characterise the anti-porn position.

i have always been fascinated by her work. In Camille Paglia's book of collected essays 'Tramps and Vamps' she really goes after her.

I would recommend Camille Paglia as another polarising intellectual feminist. Gets you thinking. Especially her views on rape.

I agree. She's very media orientated rather as opposed to academia despite her teaching posts!

She's part of the canon though and entertaining. In a 'chewing the inside of my cheek' way though lol.

Maybe from a British point of view but in the USA she is well published and academically 'used'.

Like many in the great academic 'battle', she has taken the 'slacker route' to prominence and yes, as a result has become trivialised and reactionary.

But much of her earlier work has academic viabilityregardless of whether one agrees with it.

Paglia isn't a feminist.

But anyway this thread is about this incredibly rare (unique?) documentary on Dworkin's work.

IYO. Makes the World go round does it not.

Feminism isn't taught anyway. It's not an academic subject it's a political movement. What has Paglia achieved for women?

Dworkin on the other hand gave women the tools to talk about male violence against us. The documentary shows the danger she put herself in by being brave enough to take that position.

Thank you for this.

Really? Not taught? Not discussed? Good god were my ears and eyes deceiving me in an academic transcript of a university lectures i was given last term discussing whether she should be taught?

She too has had a (patchy) academic career;

Former lecturer at Bennington albeit sacked;
Hon Professor at University of the Arts, Philadelphia;

When you encounter young girls unaware of the history of feminism then yes, feminism as a movement, it's ideals, disagreements, theorists and theories need to be taught. Then with awareness, true learning and one's position can be achieved.

it is both- political movement and academic subject. The topic of race is both too-there is history there and there is lived consciousness too.

What has Paglia achieved for women?

Weeellll.....she is part of a wider debate that not so long ago would not have existed in print and would have been afforded no credibility whatsoever. It is reductionist to eliminate a woman from a debate simply because of disagreement as to 'credentials' and co-existence with dominant thinking. Even an 'unhealthy' enjoyment of the media spotlight.

Debate needs something to push against.

So that's a sum total of nothing then, that Paglia did for women. Feminism isn't a "debate", it's political movement to end the male oppression of women. Also feminism already has something to push against, it's called the patriarchy in case you hadn't heard of it.

Anyway you're derailing this thread bring up someone who attacked Dworkin in the third post on this thread. You've said zero about the actual programme. Why don't you watch it and tell us your thoughts.

Call it gender Studies, Womens Studies, History, Sociology or whatever you want but feminist history, thought and theories are taught and discussed within these.

Excellent documentary, thankyou.

Also nursenic, except in a few rare cases, the feminsim "taught" in academia is generally anti-feminism. Hence Camille Paglia being included in your course.

Academia fucked over feminism and depoliticised it, but we're finally reclaiming it from the academics.

Did they teach you how to analyse and defeat the patriarchy nursenic?

No?

Well it's not feminism then.

I haven't attacked Dworkin. But opposing views on pornography are part of the debate and sadly Paglia owns one of these.

'Vargas Blonde Sambo's' is one of my favourite pieces of writing ever.

My niece was involved in last years Pompidou Centre Exhibition on the History Of Feminism and Women's Struggles' and because of my assistance with research and financial suppport, i went to opening night.

So I do not just engage in discussion. I put my money where my mouth is. Because lack of monetary status is a prime factor in women's oppression. And lack of Women's representation in the Arts, historically was addressed by the exhibition. As Women, we are proud of calling world wide media attention to this.

Paglia's writing was discussed in my masters because we were participating in the debate as to whether she should be included. Re read what I said and tell me where I said I agreed lol. I merely included her in the people who are polar opposites of Dworkin.

Also feminism is about debate! Otherwise how would we ever arrive at any definition of it, any discussion, any decisions about what it should do or constitute? Of course it is about debate-not its existence, but about direction, the future, re interpretation of the past.

Take De Beauvoir for instance. Knowing of the 'revisions', 'exclusions' and 'reinterpretations' offered by the previous male translator and addressed now in the new translation offers no end of possibilities for new fresh debate.

I didn't say you attacked her, I said your immediate response to a thread about Dworkin was to bring up someone who attacked her.

Dworkin was relentlessly attacked, probably more than any other feminist ever. Even feminist spaces, where you think our leaders would be offered some respect, are not/were not safe for her.

Paglia is a tool of the patriarchy. She does the boys' work for them and she gets coverage and rewards for that. She's done nothing for women. You couldn't name one thing, apart from that she'd been part of the "debate". Well so were Larry Flynt, the ACLU and Bob Guccione - that doesn't mean they did anything for women.

That programme shows the security measures Dworkin had to take when she spoke. She received constant death threats and was afraid that someone one day might pull a gun on her at an event. She'd already been attacked by groups of men on stage. Is it possible to have one place where her work is taken on its own terms and merits and not derailed into discussing her attackers?

Have you watched the programme yet nursenic?