Rape sentencing etc being discussed on PMQs now

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Justice Secretary made some stupid remarks this morning, apparently.

Who is Kenneth Clarke, I believe. What a fucking surprise.

Oh marvellous apparently they are considering introducing a plea bargaining system which would cut rapists sentences by half.

Was just going to start a thread. Am watching it.

Is all over the papers will link

sun

independent

mail - ps the picture on this one made me feel uncomfortable

Guardian live-blogging here

Miliband mentioned Cameron being "out of touch" on anonymity

Right and here we go

telegraph

Can Ken Clarke survive after suggesting that some rapes are 'serious' and others are not?

By James Kirkup Politics Last updated: May 18th, 2011
1 Comment Comment on this article
This is horrible, just horrible.
Kenneth Clarke, the Justice Secretary, has been on Radio FiveLive and Sky News this morning, talking about Coalition plans to cut sentences for those who admit to rape.
If possible, let?s leave aside the policy debate here and look at Mr Clarke?s language. In both of his interviews, he was at pains to distinguish between types of rape, including ?serious rape? and other types.
In essence, Mr Clarke said that rape in the ?ordinary conversational? sense is different to what he appeared to suggest were milder forms of the crime, including ?date rape and 17 year-olds having intercourse?.
Mr Clarke said:
Serious rape, I don?t think many judges give five years for a forcible rape, frankly, the tariff is longer for that and a serious rape where there?s violence and an unwilling woman, the tariff?s much longer than that.
Victoria Darbyshire of FiveLive challenged him on that, saying: ?Rape is rape?.
Mr Clarke replied: ?No, it?s not.?
Later, on Sky News, Mr Clarke went on to draw his distinction again, using terms like ?proper rape? and even ?classic rape?.
To describe this as incendiary is probably an understatement. Mr Clarke is famously robust, but can any political career survive suggesting that some rapes are ?serious? and ? by implication ? some are not?

FUCKING FUCKING HELL AND THIS MAN IS IN CHARGE OF JUSTICE.

oh for FUCKS sake re: that picture

This idea of reducing the tariff by 1/2 if the person pleads guilty early.

Does it apply for murder does anyone know? Is there a list of crimes that it doesn't apply for, crimes so serious that tariffs are not reduced? And if there are such exemptions, then why the fuck is rape not one of them?

Can we report that picture? Is there anyone we could actually complain about it to? I know there was that thread about misleading rape reporting relatively recently...

Just seen him on News 24 - absolute fucking disgrace, began back pedalling, actually had the audacity to shout at Matthew for "spinning the story", sorry have a 13 week old, News 24 presenters actually feel like my friends.

I am so angry, can't type any more.

"Serious rape, I don?t think many judges give five years for a forcible rape, frankly, the tariff is longer for that and a serious rape where there?s violence and an unwilling woman, the tariff?s much longer than that."

Rape is always forcible. Someone sticking their penis inside you against your will is forcible by definition.
Rape always involves an unwilling woman. If the woman is willing then it's not rape.

THIS FROM THE MAN IN CHARGE OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. NO WONDER WE HAVE THE PROBLEMS THAT WE DO WHEN THE POLITICIAN IN CHARGE OF CRIME A. HOLDS THESE VIEWS AND B. DOES NOT UNDERSTAND (EVEN AS AN EXPERIENCED POLITICIAN) THAT IT IS NOT OK TO AIR THESE VIEWS TO THE PUBLIC.

sORRY for the caps I am just so angry.

He won;t go. If he does I will eat not only my hat, but both my children, a stuffed toy elephant and the garden shed.

(Don't hold me to that!)

No, caps and anger are the proper reaction to this SHIT.

"In an interview on BBC Radio 5live, a rape victim told the Justice Secretary: "He [the offender] served just over a year and a half, he was released on licence and... he further reoffended and he further reoffended." Mr Clarke had earlier admitted he had not asked any victims their opinion on discounting sentences for those who plead guilty to rape. He said: "No, I haven?t put this idea to women who?ve been raped because I haven?t met one recently but my experience of rape trials is that contesting a rape case makes things worse [for the victim].""

Oh yes, in his experience eh? But he hasn't asked ANY rape victims because he "hasn't met one recently" (bet he thought that was a really good, funny line - I bet he bloody has met one recently, he doesn't strike me as the sort of person one would confide in.

Good god, he's not even very good at English as he can't seem to grasp the simple definition of rape

I don't like to claim that people who havent experienced something know nothing about it, however, how does a white, middle class, male politician grasp the different types of rape?!

Are these types is the dictionary, it may be helpful if they were...

As I said on the other thread about this though on AIBU, i have read a supposed feminist book writen by a woman that claimed date rape wasnt that bad... so, it's unsurprising that the likes of cuntychopsClarke doesn't 'get it'

"hasnt met one recentely"??!??!!!!! WTF! Do we go around with badges? No! We're mostly too ashamed to tell anyone because we've had it drummed in to us that what we have experienced "isn't proper rape" Twat.

BBC contains more of what he said and it is staggering

Again pressed on the fact rapists could be out in 15 months: "I must stop you repeating this total nonsense that - assuming you and I are talking about rape in the ordinary conversational sense, some man has forcefully with a bit of violence..."

When BBC interviewer Victoria Derbyshire interrupted to say "Rape is rape, with respect" Mr Clarke replied: "No it's not, if an 18-year-old has sex with a 15 year old and she's perfectly willing, that is rape. Because she is under age, she can't consent... What you and I are talking about is we are talking about a man forcibly having sex with a woman and she doesn't want to - a serious crime."

HOW MANY 18YO IN THE UK ARE IN PRISON FOR RAPE AFTER HAVING CONSENSUAL SEX WITH 15YO???? I AM WILLING TO BET IT IS A TINY TINY NUMBER. MR CLARKE HAS THE FIGURES, HE IS THE FUCKING JUSTICE SECRETARY. HE OBVIOUSLY HASN'T LOOKED AT THEM AND IS SIMPLY TROTTING OUT RAPE MYTHS. WHAT A STUPID, CALLOUS BASTARD.

(Will I get sued?)

I would think none at all, SQ.

A labour backbencher has just raised the topic again. The House is on fire about this.

I thought the expression "unwilling woman" was

Surely that's usually the case in rape ?