whats the point of the unions

[CerealOffender]

on channel 4 right now. the unions hold women in low paid jobs with utter contempt

[AliceWorld]

In what way? What are they doing/not doing? I was just reading this which suggests otherwise

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/8026455/Legal-claim-landslide-warning-over-female-public-sector-job-cut-threats.html

[DuelingFanjo]

been watching this. Personally I think the government hold women in more contempt.

[CerealOffender]

their behavior when council workers were seeking equal pay was despicable.

[AliceWorld]

Well with the power of digital tv, 4 + 1 here I come

[ISNT]

Concept of unions = great

In pricnciple all too often it's just another bunch of white men shouting and bullying to get the best for themselves and their mates.

I can't stand bob crow, seriously.

[CerealOffender]

they always have fat necks, eric pickles is on the wrong side, his neck says - shop steward

[ISNT]

I can't look at eric pickles

bob crow

who's the otehr one

nicholas soames

you know how they say "they broke the mould when they made him"

I wish they bloody would

[TheCrackFox]

In regard to council wages, the unions were at every stage of the negotiations for the past 50 yrs - they were instrumental in women being paid less for similar skilled jobs.

In principle I think unions are a great idea but they have only woken up to women's rights in the passed 10 yrs which is disappointing.

[ISNT]

Does bob crow look like a man who is alive to the problems faced by women?

Does he fuck.

Sorry for my language I'm in a bit of a mood tonight.

Re last comment - it's not just what they look like - it's everything about them - which sort of leaks out of every pore and makes me want to hurl.

[CerealOffender]

its also the stupid 'we are right lalalala we can't hear you 'mentality which makes them walk out of meetings as if they are making a fabulous statement

[CerealOffender]

lol @ isnt

[GeekyGirl]

The programme was a bit of a hatchet job on unions which is just going to scare the general public at a time when the public sector needs their support.

I agree that there are some TERRIBLE chauvinists working in/for unions, but who else speaks for the low paid working classes?

[create]

I was discriminated against a work because I worked part-time. It's a male dominated industry, so very few part-timers and I was being put under a lot of pressure to change my hours, which wouldn't have suited my family at the time.

The union told me exactly how to deal with it and the problem disappeared overnight, as soon as the company realised I'd taken some advice. So, AFAIC that's the point of the unions.

I agree that the attitudes taken don't always help their own causes, but without the labour movement, there'd be no paid holidays, no sick pay and precious few worker rights of any sort.

[ISNT]

Yes agree create

and sugarpinkmouse

I was saying the other day to someone (foget who) that the bob crows play into the anti-union people's hands. They fuck everyone off so much, causing so much disruption and upheaval to perpetuate a situation which is already out of kilter (I'm thinking tube drivers pay here) that it makes ordinary people lose sympathy for unions full stop. And when the unions lose the sympathy of the general public and people start muttering "something must be done" then we're into dangerous territory. They really don't care, that their aggressive posturing and ludicrous actions (making sure strikes are on big match days etc) jeopardises all the good work done by unions. i know quite a few tube drivers and they all laugh and joke about it, how much it all takes the piss. They go for it and I don't blame them, but it's very short sighted..

[TheCrackFox]

SugarMouse - my grandad was a shop steward in ship yards in the 1970's and also left the movement (of which he was deeply passionate about) because they were going on strike, all the time, for the pettiest reasons. He felt that if you strike you lose a lot of money and it has to be a solid, justifiable reason. Bob Crow sounds absolutely out of touch with his members real life concerns.

[RamblingRosa]

That was a dreadful programme. I was truly shocked by how biased it was and what a blatant hatchet job it was on the unions.

Re. RMT sending people round to union meetings to tell them how they should vote - er, that's what unions are meant to do. Of course they're not meant to bully people which was the implication but they're meant to recommend which way to vote and explain the rationale to members who then vote in a secret ballot. What would be the point of intimidating people in a secret ballot when no one will ever know how they voted anyway? I've been told that the assertion that Bob Crow received a 12% pay rise was entirely fabricated.

Re. Unite - Simpson came over appallingly WRT his salary and posh house. Les Bayliss was investigated (by a 3rd party, not by the union) and entirely exonerated over those allegations re. the charity stuff. I think the blokey who was standing by the canal making himself out to be a hard done by whistle blower was actually the person who was implicated in the whole charity money thing and was the only person who got done for it.

Re. Unison and equal pay - They didn't mention that Stefan whatsit is a multimillionaire. Or that he has yet to win a single penny for any of those women. Or that the woman who said she'd smack Prentis in the mouth if she saw him is on Stefan's payroll. And there was no mention of the thousands of successes unions (including Unison) have had on equal pay, both through employment tribunals and through collective bargaining. No mention of the fact that we wouldn't have an Equal Pay Act if it weren't for the unions.

Jeez everybody. Did no one stop to think that it was maybe presenting a slightly one sided view? Do we all believe everything the telly box tells us?

Pretty much every feminist I know in RL is a union member and activist, across a range of unions including the RMT. I'm really sad actually to see unions being so quickly dismissed as irrelevant or even detrimental to feminists when in my RL the opposite is true.

[caramelwaffle]

Yes, Dittany - spot on.

[RamblingRosa]

Exactly Dittany. There are indeed misogynists in the Trade Union movement but no more than in any other sector or in the world of business for example. There are also an awful lot of very dedicated feminists in the trade union movement (male and female).

I completely agree that it's no coincidence that this very biased piece of reporting went out just as a new Labour leader was elected (cut to shots of "Red Ed" at the end) and just as the government is about gearing up to make the deepest, fastest cuts this country has seen for decades. Cuts which we already know are going to hit women and families harder than any other social group. The government needs to discredit and marginalise the unions. The media in general seem quite happy to help them out with this. I get very frustrated with how quick people are to buy into this anti union rhetoric.

SugarMouse - all General Secretaries' pay is a matter of public record as they publish it in their annual reports. I haven't seen the RMT's latest annual report but I've been told by people I know who are RMT members and activists that the 12% figure was wrong.

The article you linked to is great (I've read the book that it's taken from - Comrade or Brother - and I would highly recommend it to anyone) and Mary Davis is a formidable font of knowledge on all things to do with feminism and trade unionism. She's an incredible trade unionist. She rightly points out how unprogressive parts of the trade union movement have been over history (I think she rightly singles out the TUC more than any individual union for being very conservative). But I don't think she's arguing that unions didn't have a role to play in the Equal Pay Act.

Unions aren't perfect. But they're a bloody good thing in my book and we'd be in a far worse state without them.

[Poogles]

I work in a unionised environment and deal with them from a HR point of view.

We are in a manufacturing environment and work for a Company that pays much better than almost any other company in the area. The union do not support female workers as they 'are stopping a bloke from having a job to support his family' and don't get me started on their views towards part timers.

As a male dominated environment, women are an easy target and anything the company does to promote diversity and equality is seen as an affront to men (despite the fact that policies such as flexible working apply to men as well!)

[RamblingRosa]

Poogles, the union reps tell you that they "don't support female workers as they're stopping a bloke from having a job"?

They actually say this to you?

What does the company do to promote equality and diversity and what makes you think that the union sees this as an affront to men?