would anybody support a boycott of holidays abroad in the six weeks school hols next year. it would teach the travel industry a lesson and do the uk ecomony a load of good??

TheFool -- I think the key is in the phrasing. Obviously a child can learn as much on holiday as at school. That doesn't necessarily mean that a child would notmally learn as much on holiday as at school.

Kickassangel - great post. I got a bit of a roasting for agreeing with a similar post a few weeks back but you are right - we don't have a right to a holiday and having holiday at home can be just as much fun with a bit of careful planning.

Changing/staggering holidays won't work because it will give the holiday companies more opportunity to raise the prices for the rest of the year. It is a basic fact of supply and demand that prices go up if something is more in demand. Short of a UN resolution putting a cap on the prices that holiday companies can charge there is nothing that is going to alter that.

Better to leave things as they are imo. If you can have 10 days off in term time you have to apply for it but it won't be encouraged.

In practise today each LA and indeed each school can change its dates. Have DS' at local primary / secondary at the same school. The secondary finishes this week and the primary next week and they are within 100 metres of each other!!!

My DW is also a teacher so we can only take long holidays when she's off.

What I would like to see is a nationally agreed set of term dates so all schools will open/ close at the same time. Any term ending should have a 2 week break to allow holidays to be taken then.

At least this way to makes it easier to plan for the dates. Can't do much around the price of holidays with the travel companies and if parents have flexibility to take days off during term time they should but try to discourage it.

Also ideally would like to see teacher training co-ordinated too, at least within same LEA, may not be possible due to getting in speakers etc but I'm sure it could be planned around. Also some schools could co-work together more to share ideas / good practises.

Kickassangel, this is why I like MN, there is a spread of opinion. I think there's some sense in what you say.

just make it acceptable for all children to be able to miss the 10 days of school without recriminations

simples!

I am a teacher and I am forced to take my holidays in the most expensive times, therefore we don't go anywhere very expensive and we have 1 week a year. But I knew this when i signed up to be a teacher and the pro's definatly outweigh this con.

Over half seriously believe that a child can learn as much on holiday as at school?

i'm going to stick my neck out & say something unpopular.

the concept of 'family holidays' is a modern, western one. other societies don't have this idea. we don't need them, however much we like them, and if you can't afford one, you're not suffering in any real sense.

however much we enjoy holidays, we have no 'right' to them. the things that kids learn on holiday can be learnt at weekends/day trips etc, whereas i doubt very much if children receive several hours of academic input each day whilst on holiday. families do not become less of a family just because they don't get a holiday each year.

our own desire for this treat is only part of what makes them so expensive. the harsh fact is that it IS expensive, both in human-made monetry terms, and also in resources. even if the demand were 'spread', the cost of fuel, food, hotels etc would still need to be dropped & would only go so far towards a price cut.

i live in the states, where there is a 3 month summer holiday, and different states/regions do have different holidays, varying by up to a month, but the cost of flights stays high right across the summer.

so, i don't think that any tinkering with the education system (which, i think implies some twisted priorities, re-organising an entire business, just for the sake of holidays) OR lobbying of govt, travel co.s etc will make a blind bit of difference.

having a holiday is like driving a good car, very many of us want to, but if you can't afford it, you just gotta suck it up.

having said all that, a child missing a week of school occasionally is no biggy, but one or two weeks a year is going to make a very real difference to their educational results, career prospects etc. so the one-off week for a special reason seems ok, but not those who take kids out of school once or twice a year.

How about different (but overlapping) holidays for England/Scotland/NI/Wales then??

should read 3 months, obviously

Why not do the same as in Germany, where different areas go on holiday at different times? The earliest school holidays start in June, and the latest (us!), in August.
We don't go back to school until mid-September.
The holiday season is thus lengthened from 6 weeks to around 2 months (mid-June to mid-September).

Of course, its pretty bad luck if you move from the latest to the earliest one during the summer holidays...

I am not sure how that could work with teachers ensuring the currciculum is taught and covered by all pupils, esp if you have pupils potentially all having a different set of 12 weeks off throughout each year, as wll as teachers off.

Even with personalised learning it sounds like a planning nightmare. Sorry.

I didn't mean 50 weeks as it is at the moment!! I meant that kids would still be able to have the same amount of holiday as at present, only that it would be at a time of the parents' choosing, and that they would have to attend for 4-6 core hours a day on the days that they were there, but could also be there for additional time if their parents felt this would be helpful/appropriate.

It's just that it could be a lot more flexible than it currently is, especially now there's supposed to be more personalised learning anyway. This way it could be adapted both for parents that wanted their kids at home a bit more, as well as those who needed them looked after while they were at work.

Can't think of anything worse Boffinmum. I dn't want DD at school 50 weeks a year! I want her home lots having lots of un and play. And 8-6 is horrendously long for a day at school for children. When do they relax before bedtime?

Leave the system as it is but allow parents to take the 10 days without any begative stuff from school. Simply IMO.

Here's a novel thought from an educationalist. What would happen if you opened schools on the same basis as nurseries? That is Monday to Friday, 8am to 6pm, 50 weeks a year, with parents and staff booking holidays as required (probably within some kind of reasonable core time parameter, with a set number of discretionary weeks holiday each year, avoiding exam times and some key school events)?

In a society where we don't all trot off to church for every holy day, and in which we no longer are predominantly agricultural, surely it's time to ditch terms based on religion and crop growing altogether?

I wonder if families would end up less stressed all around?

Actually the local scheme was fully funded by teh travel agent...but it just wasn't enough to make it viable. some government incentive to help the travel agents help us could worrk. It doesn't have to be financial support. If it is structured appropriately there could be scope for supporting the british tourist industry, which would retain benefits for the country...

seeking - if schools all change to 4 term it would take the travel companies less than a year to follow sit and adjust their pricing accordingly.

Ye gods - in the midst of the worst recession in living memory, a national debt that will take generations to repay and someone is suggesting subsidising holidays for people so that they can afford to go during school holidays.

You're quite quite demented.

Actually I have just spotted an idea which was trialled around here, where teh concept was GREAT but the execution could have been better.

Each school child was given a voucher (for £200 I think) off a holiday which could be used at a local travel agents. It was only applicable for holidays booked wholey outside of term time.

There are still some drawbacks, but not that aren't without potential solutions. The drawbacks were:
1. Could only be used at 1 travel agent, so a little restricted on choice. I think it was also aimed at oversea's holidays, leaving a gap in the UK market.
2. Even after deducting the value of the voucher the holiday was still more expensive that taking the same holiday in termtime in many cases.
3. I have only seen them do this once, a couple of years ago...maybe it wasn't popular for the above reasons.

This has the potential fantastic scheme which the Government could in principal lend support/funding to this if they wanted to. It could be kind of like the free childcare for 3 yo scheme. The voucher values would need to be a little higher to make it realistically viable and there would need to be the facility to take abroader range of holidays - which could DEFINATELY happen if the Government was to support it.

I agree with Hula changing/staggering holidays will surely just mean even more expensive weeks

I'ma a bit for GN though pre kids I would never have wanted to go away in school holidays it was June and September for me.

I'm not really attracted by 4 terms or June school holidays TBH (but I'm a real stick in the mud )

Suggestion Two - Having gone back to read a few more comments and a bit shocked at JUX. DD1 was bullied (seriously) once and I know how long that can stay with someone. However he is DD1 - now 20 - at Uni - he may do a third year, if he's done enough to stay. He was very dyslexic and had all the "thick, stupid" names chucked at him. Anyway so, moving on. Suggestion Two -
Get DCFS to take the pressure off EVERY head teacher in England and Wales. Get them to say "we believe children will be happier for one or two weeks holidays with their family". Not so long ago a European wide survey found that British children are the unhappiest in Europe. Any decent Psychologist or Psychology book would tell the DCFS that a fun time spent with their family will inspire, educate and rejuvinate (child and parent). Time away from the normal drudge and duty is positive : the beach at Tenby out of season can be inspirational - sitting in 8 hour traffic queues to Devon is soul destroying, but then our dear Mr Ed Balls has probably never done it.

One suggestion is to - Go for the four term option. As I've got a reliable twenty year old in my family at uni which finished at the end of June , I can now go on holiday out of school time. I meet Irish and Scottish families every time I go at the end of June or late Sept/first week October. The Scots have had it sussed for years.

I don't want spread out holidays (purely from my pov)- the only place we can go is the UK, we don't want to go when it's pissing down with rain but when it's sunny; a shorter summer holiday will push UK holiday prices up even more in that gap and I would think have a great negative impact on the tourism industry as well

At the moment it works for us; ds3 attends schoola cross county borders (an SNU) so if different Counties taggered holdidays we'd end up far worse off for the childcare isue once I go abck to work.

I like it the way it is, it's not perfect for us (once I am working I wont be allowed term time rbeaks but DH's main work period will be summer) but at least we know where we are atm. Sister runs a holiday club so can't have time off during that- satggered holidays would make it impossible for her and her family to go away, if she had to cover say 12 wees for different schools dates

Hula, I don't mean move them earlier in the school year like that, I mean end the school year earlier so they are still at the end of the school year but the school year ends earlier IYSWIM?

So why can't the 10days apply to teachers too?
Jux, a very close family member of mine got married on a Friday in September. I would very dearly loved to have gone as she is a cousin who is more like a sister. Unfortunately, as it was term time I couldn't go.

Yes I know I'm an adult who has made the decision to join this profession but that is no different to the adult parents who make the decisions to take their children out of school in term time.