Mumsnet Talk

One of the teachers at my child's school (he is in sixth form) thinks giving out yellow cards and red cards for 'bad' behaviour in class will somehow motivate 17 year olds.

At my 14 year old's school (a different school) he was asked to write a letter to Father Christmas during an English lesson. The teacher was dead serious. REALLY?

I pressume that nether of these teachers have children of their own, but should surely have been taught at uni that these things were completely age inappropriate.

One of the things that I approve of at my son's college is that they don't bother with nonsense like this. A boy of 17 misbehaving is given opportunities to change, then told to leave.
How the hell will they cope at uni if they are arsing around in lessons in the 6th form? Or hold down a job?
Time they grew up.

I take it you are a qualified teacher?

Who me?
Yes, and the parent of a 17 year old boy.

Wow, they should make you the minister of Education - if you can tell without experimenting exactly what will work and what won't. Specially without being in either of those classrooms.

Can't be worse than Gove, I suppose.

The point being that they are 17, not 7.

This week, I got my 14 year olds to bring in a stuffed toy and make a speech about why it should be Leader of the World.

Teaches them persuasion, makes it more entertaining than giving a speech about themselves, they had a laugh and they learnt. A couple of them said it was babyish at first but by the end were saying how much they enjoyed it...perhaps the Father Christmas letter was something similar.

I would imagine the yellow/red cards are more to do with behaviour management than motivation - everyone knows where they stand.

Let teachers teach, you get on with the parenting.

<shrug>

The red/yellow card system can work for some - especially when backed up with proper rewards/consequences. Perhaps it's part of school policy.

Also, how do you know what the teacher was looking for in the letter to Santa?

Your post comes across as extremely condescending.

Don't have a problem with anything that the teachers are doing, but at 17 and in further education, I'd expect a higher standard of behaviour from boys on the verge of adulthood.
They should be there because they want to learn.

I agree with the OP, these activities should be consigned to Primary, they don't encouraging children to function in the real world. What are teachers learning at college?

Erm... That's great nebulusboojum. But what if their behaviour isn't perfect? Not all 6th form classes are full of A-level sitting uni-hopefuls. There are plenty of students doing resits, or lower level courses such as BTECs etc.
Many, many 17 year olds are no more mature than 14 year olds. People mature at different rates. It seems to me like the teacher has come up with a warning system and used terminology they're familiar with. Would you rather she just kicked them out at the first sign of anything less than perfection?

I think things like red/yellow cards stop the flow of the class being disrupted. Maybe at 17 they SHOULDN'T still need that, but I'm currently at university on a professional course and there's plenty of people here that could be doing with a wee red carding now and then to remind them that sitting chatting throughout a lecture is not on.

What are teachers learning at college?

This question implies you think the teachers in question must be relatively fresh out of college.

Would it alter your opinion if the teachers had 30 years' experience and were "outstanding?"

I'm not a teacher but think if a 17 year can't behave and listen during the duration of a class session then a yellow cards not gonna make much difference. By that age they should know what is appropriate.

They SHOULD cloudpuff but they frequently don't. Like I said, on my PGCE there are people, who are going to be teachers themselves, chatting through lectures and tutorials.

I bet it does work, along with giving sweeties. The teacher is probably matching the strategies used to the maturity level of the class.
Let's see if future employers use similar tactics to get them out of bed and motivated at work.

'Like I said, on my PGCE there are people, who are going to be teachers themselves, chatting through lectures and tutorials.'

And a 30% drop out rate in the first year of teaching because they can't cope.

Teachers aren't learning anything at college. Certainly in Scotland it's a four year degree at Uni or a post grad degree after an undergraduate degree - again at Uni. Teachers haven't been trained at college in over 25 years. I assume it is the same in England although I aware there are non-traditional routes there not available in Scotland.

I go to a college, stargirl.

If people can't shut up and listen for the length of a lecture or lesson then its rude. It's distacting for other students and teachers/lecturers.

How are these people gonna cope in employment if they cant keep quiet for a few hours?

Although the general consensus of if a child is unwilling to learn, or messing around, it is always the teacher's fault and thus their responsibility to do something about it.
That's been the norm for a couple of decades.
Because the pupil has little responsibility to take their own learning seriously and be independent, even when they are almost adult.

'How are these people gonna cope in employment if they cant keep quiet for a few hours?'

It's not even the keeping quiet, it's the disruption to everyone else's learning that is also unacceptable.

cloudpuff I really don't know, but it seriously bothers me. Their utter lack of interest in their subject and their disregard for other people is just shocking to me.

Nebulous yes, this constant need to blame teachers for everything that's wrong in the classroom is really bothersome. Yes, there are a lot of things we can do to improve behaviour and to ensure that all children are learning. At some point, they have to take some responsibility instead.

I used to teach English as a foreign language, and had a student complain he failed an exam because of me, because I didn't teach him the right stuff. He only came to about one class a week instead of five. He was an adult. All the other students passed.

Are you in England Esme? As I said I'm not fully aware of the situation in England. In Scotland you need a university degree to be a GTC registered teacher - and you can't teach without registration.

If a 6th former cant cope with a lesson then they should be told to leave the room. What is the point in going to sixth form if you are unable to cope with a class. They should get an apprenticeship, or try and get a job to learn how precious an education is. Why would a teacher pander to their disruption by playing the red card game. Millionaire footballers become icons by getting red cards and its a badge of honor not a punishment. I hate the PC system where children are closeted and we wonder why we employers wont give them jobs.