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Original poster

Tips on being assertive with ex.

32 replies

BertieBotts · 02/10/2010 22:08

It's DS' birthday this week and XP cancelled seeing him this weekend again because his girlfriend and her DD have a bug. (Apparently. Either they all have the worst immune systems ever/their house is a health hazard, or he's lying, as this has been his excuse 2/3 of the time for the last 4-5 months)

So he texted saying he'll pop round with DS' present on his birthday. Now he might just intend to drop it off, but there's a possibility he's expecting to stay and spend some time with DS. I would be happy for him to take DS out for an hour or two but I really do not want him in the house at all. I've texted back saying "Not sure what we're doing on his bday, what time were you wanting to drop it off?" so hopefully if he did want to stay he will get the message. FWIW DS is 2 next week, it's not as if he's desperately going to miss his present until XP sees him at the weekend.

XP was emotionally abusive/manipulative when we were together and has already wrangled his way to knowing my address when the agreement was for him to pick DS up and drop him off at the end of the road where he couldn't see the house, he just started to park further and further up the road until one day he knocked on the door :( I really don't want this to happen again with this, I hate the fact he knows where I live enough. We moved here to get away from him, the thought of him being in my house makes me feel all panicky and out of control.

So just wondering if anyone has any advice, if he turns up on DS' birthday and expects to come in, what do I do/say? I'm probably overthinking this and it will be fine but I'm worrying about it. I'm quite assertive usually but just crap when it comes to dealing with XP.

OP posts:

Mummiehunnie · 02/10/2010 22:13

I would not let him in at all from your description, I would say that it may be nice if he, you and ds have a hot chocolate and a muffin with a candle in somewhere for ds's birthday in somewhere like costa/nero/starbucks near where you live! and he can give ds his present then!

Longtalljosie · 02/10/2010 22:13

Perhaps send him a text saying "As you know, I didn't want you to know where I live. I can't help the fact that you now do but still don't want you in the house."

You don't need to let him in your house. No matter what he says.

Mummiehunnie · 02/10/2010 22:16

My personal experience with an ex like yous is if you say you don't want them to do something, ie as you did with the end of the road thing, the more they want it... Don't even mention what you don't want and just suggest the coffee type thing, let him decide the place and you tell him the time!

HerBeatitude · 02/10/2010 22:16

I would agree with LTJ. Bald statements are best. "Let me know what time you intend to drop it off and we will walk to the end of the road and meet you."

If you're not up to that, can you get a friend to come round and answer the door to him, making it clear that he's not to come in?

Mummiehunnie · 02/10/2010 22:22

The bigger the challenge the more exciting it is for men like your ex, if you get someone else to rescue you it makes you look weak to them. Once you get to the point where you don't hide behind anyone else and don't feel scared etc, you will not be a challenge to him, you will confuse him big time, you do have to let the whole challenge thing go though, and believe me been there with the abuse thing, treat him like he is ok, it is very confusing for them, as they want and expect you to be fearfull and fight them, they love the challenge! The main thing my ex complains about now regarding me is that interactions are boring, that makes me so happy, the drama has now gone, and so has his interest!

Original poster

BertieBotts · 02/10/2010 22:41

Yes Mummiehunnie you are spot on that as soon as he thinks I want him to do something he will do his best to do the opposite. Hence the playing dumb with the text message, so it looks like I've misunderstood what he has said but is still clear.

I never actually said to him that I didn't want him to know the address but he did come up to the house.

I have asked friends if they would just be present in the house before when I have to say something as I know he won't kick off if he thinks someone might notice, but half of my male friends refuse outright as they all want to beat him up from what I have told them about him and my other friends don't want to get involved at all. Which is fair enough, so I doubt anybody would be willing to answer the door to him for me.

Argh, just wish I wasn't so crap when it came to this :(

OP posts:

Mummiehunnie · 02/10/2010 22:47

Your words did not tell him you did not want him to know where you live, your actions did! I noticed that also the people that want to get involved have their own agenda's, it really is long term best that you deal with him yourself!

If only we knew when we got pregnant what we were letting ourselves into! A life time of them on and off!

CarGirl · 02/10/2010 23:09

Get a safety chain if it will make you feel stronger and use it. Then no matter he says you will have to physically shut the door in order to then let him in which gives you breathing space.

Original poster

BertieBotts · 02/10/2010 23:18

I've got a safety chain, thanks for the suggestion though. But won't that look a bit odd? I never use it normally.

OP posts:

ItsGraceAgain · 03/10/2010 00:00

No, use it. And put a cricket bat or something by the door. I wish I'd learned sooner about the value of physical retaliation (or the threat of it). I like MH's cafe suggestion re the birthday. If he does turn up at your door, keep the chain on and grasp the handle of your weapon in a meaningful way! Just do it :)

Mummiehunnie · 03/10/2010 00:15

I think using the chain if you have not done so in the past will just antagonise him further, and possibly cause drama etc, as he will most likely feel restricted and held back and find it a challenge. I would avoid all of that and meet him in a public place and try and make that an annual birthday thing for ds, and give ds a show of getting along for his birthday take pic's ect, anything to get away from the negativity and challenges and disputes etc, it is not going to do any of the three of you any good! You don't want ds to grow up seeing a woman scared of his Dad!

celticfairy101 · 03/10/2010 00:16

Write a letter to your ex and tell him that if he wants to see his son again then he'll have to go to court to get access.

Spend £50 on a solicitor's letter confirming this. And don't answer his texts, phone calls or door bell. He needs to get the message that if he doesn't continue a good relationship with his son then his son will reject him. It's not about you, him, his girlfriend or her daughter, it's about him and his son.

Oh and tell ex to grow a pair of cojones - but only as a last resort as this isn't really helpful even though it's the truth.

Mummiehunnie · 03/10/2010 00:19

Even the head of cafcass says it is not a good idea to use the courts in parental disputes and having been taken by ex who has no contact I can't think of anything more stupid to put your children through, avoid, avoid, avoid it at all costs if you can, obviously there are exceptions!

celticfairy101 · 03/10/2010 00:25

Yes you're right. I would do it only as a last option, but I would threaten it.

I wouldn't give your ex the time of day. Ignore him. It's entirely up to him whether he has a loving, static and committed relationship with his son. Anything ad hoc just doesn't cut it I'm afraid and only serves to further divide him and his son who will soon feel resentment towards his father. As much as he would if he never saw his dad.

Original poster

BertieBotts · 03/10/2010 00:29

I don't know about threats of violence I'm the weediest thing ever so I doubt he would take it seriously at all! It's not that I'm scared of him - I mean, what is he really going to do? Nothing. I just don't want to antagonise him and make things worse for DS. I did have a word with him the other day about him smoking around DS (although apparently "smoking doesn't make children cough", so that was a waste of time) and in the past I've mentioned that he was late which led to his girlfriend swearing at me in front of DS.

I'm quite happy to argue/dispute with him, I just don't want DS seeing it. Would really rather not spend any time with him at all either, even if it is for DS' birthday. (I think it's confusing for DS too.) When we first split he kept suggesting we take DS to soft play etc together and I was quite clear about that.

So for the same reason I'm reluctant to take it to court unless I really have to. Although I am seeing a solicitor this month.

Sorry, I don't mean to rubbish all your suggestions, they are helpful, just thinking things through really. I want to be assertive rather than aggressive if poss.

OP posts:

Mummiehunnie · 03/10/2010 00:36

Bb, I am three and a half years down the line, if you can tollerate him once a year it will be better for ds, i understand it is hard, that way if you have pics and a tradition of meeting publically for a short time each year your ds will appreciate it later on. I can look my children in the face that i did not keep them from their father ever. I am glad I did, as the fear I have is that he will be one of those men they seek out when older who will tell them i kept him away from them, what if I am dead, they will be psychologically messed up from it and it will warp their whole idea of their childhood, question their memories and damage them as he did to me when we were together with his lies and twising! If ds sees him from time to time and he lets ds down then ds will know the truth from his fathers actions!

Anenome · 03/10/2010 00:44

I only read your post OP so sorry if this has already been said....you should contact him...and ask him..."Are you wanting to stay and visit when you drop off DS's present?

Wait for the answer....if he stutters that he hadnt thought about it then you say "Well either way I would prefer you not to."

And wit to see what he says...don't add any "If you don't minds" or "If that's ok"

Speak in short factual sentences...I want this...I don't want that.

It's assertive.

Mummiehunnie · 03/10/2010 00:51

Anenome, if she gives him a choice to do something she does not want that is not being assertive, she does not want him in the house so why ask him if that is what he wants, why give him the power of that choice when she does not want it, I don't understand your reasoning? that is opening herself up to having somone in her home she does not want!

I do think to have him part of the solution is the way forward, so you choose the place and time and give him some options of places and let him choose them, advice was given to me to do that and it works with people in general so much better than dictating to them or being controlled! It is kind of equal which is where you need to head with the father of your child, otherwise he or you will feel like victims and the cycle will continue!

Anenome · 03/10/2010 00:58

No...she is making him tell her his plans...his plans...not what she agrees to. In making him come out with what he wants clearly, she is then in a position to deny it.

If she allows him to have open drop-ins with the potential for him to visit...then that's unassertive...she needs to get his intentions out of him before he is there.

Mummiehunnie · 03/10/2010 01:00

why? The way I look at it if she does and she does not agree to it, he will feel victimised and want to persecute her and on the drama goes, where as if he is part of the solution he will feel equal and less drama will happen...

When dealing with the average person I can see what you are suggesting working, when dealing with abusers it is a different kettle of fish!

ItsGraceAgain · 03/10/2010 01:10

Interesting conversation going on here! Your thinking is all manipulative, MH, which doubtless is the way forward with your personal nutcase but is what got me ripped off by mine My 'show force' theory was also learned through experience but, actually, didn't work with X2. Anenome's advice is assertive, logical and therefore advisable. (Advisable advice?? Must be tired!!) The part about not giving away power, with any "if that's okay" noises, is super-essential, too.

Learned and absorbed, Anenome. Send me your bill :)

mathanxiety · 03/10/2010 01:18

Use the chain. I would under no circumstances ask him if he wants to stay in the house for a visit with DS. This will forever be used against you -- that you invited him over once so you have no right to ever refuse him admittance again. Don't play the meet you at the end of the road at X o'clock game either. He will only make you stand there for hours and show up at the door later anyhow. And he will laugh at you about it.

Defend your turf. He wants to invade it because he is a Neanderthal. This is his goal just because it is yours. He will see any weakness on your part as encouragement. If he makes a fuss at your own doorstep, yelling about getting in and seeing his DS, call the police. Have a friend there for backup. Your reluctance to have your DS witness any arguing or fighting is what he is counting on, and the friend can whisk the DS upstairs or away somewhere else in the house at the first sign of trouble.

Mummiehunnie · 03/10/2010 01:39

I was taught that thinking from a TA ed psy, with regards to dealing with ex, it makes sense to me! If it works for you guys then good for you!

I have seen it working also with groups, for example when I was training for homestart volunteer and we I went to mend programme with the children, they used the method designed by great ormond street psychologists!

They put up the title rules and ask you to write them down in words and to write one in person, making you part of the solution, it was used througout the sessions in both homestart and mend.

I don't discuss anything with the ex until we are inside court now, have learned it is best!

ItsGraceAgain · 03/10/2010 02:08

Interesting, MH! Can you elaborate on another thread (maybe the NPD one?) when you have time?

Anenome · 03/10/2010 08:42

Mummiehunnie your advice all seemsto come from a very educated mind....but it is also all to do with keeping the OP's DH happy!

Who gives a shit if he "feels victimized"? That attitude comes from the fear of him...who cares what he feels? It's not assertive to creep carefully around his screwed up ego!The OP needs to show no fear of consequences but your advice is all coming from fear.

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