EXP with mental health issues - access questions. Advice please

[baldieswife]

I'm a regular lurker but seldom post. Have typed this post out a thousand times but either include too much or not enough info. So I will try to keep it concise and if you need more info let me know.I'm desperate for advice.
Father of DS (10) has a history of mental illness, it was last evident during Summer 2009. It has become obvious (to me) since Feb this year that he is becoming unwell again.
My concerns are due to his erratic contact (he frequently ignores phonecalls from me and phonecalls/visits from his parents).
There is more to this than lack of contact and I am happy to elaborate but don't want to do huge initial post if some stuff might not be relevant.
I guess basically what I am asking is what is the route I need to take to get medical/professional assurance that my DS father is mentally well enough for my son to have independent access with him.
My uncertainty is due to denials from Ex and his family, yet he is displaying the same behaviour previous to being unwell in the past.

I guess what I'm asking in a nutshell is do I have the right (with ExP consent) to find what is actually going on with him?
I have always beeen very pro active and accommodating with regards to access but the last few months have been dreadful for DS and I need advice.
I'm sorry if this is jumbled or if I haven't explained myself very well.

It's very difficult to answer without knowing the severity of the mental ill health, what the condition is (maybe) and it's affect on his ability to handle life in general and therefrore rsponsibility.

I would say that you have a responsibility to ensure the safety of your child at all times, and if he is unable to take his responsibility due to mental ill health, then that makes it all the more important for you to exercise your responsibility.

Would you want this man to have independent access to your son in these circumstances anyway?. Does your son still want to have a relationship with his Dad?.

Has there been any court involvement to date with regards to access arrangements?.

No there is no court involvement. He is on anti psychotic medication. He has been off work with sickness and diarrhea (sp) since feb but as yet no cause has been found. I'm not convinced that this is the real reason why he is off work but get flat out denials from him if I ask him directly whether it is anything else. It all seems really odd - thats the only way I can describe it.

DS is desperate for a relationship with him but is a fantastic boy and understands that for the forseeable future all contact will be at home.

Ideally what I would like is to speak to his Doctor myself and get the truth but I know its unlikely that I'd be allowed to do that.

I feel as tho I'm losing perspective on what is really important and am tryingto seperate what is best for DS and the fact I would love ExP to fall off the face of the earth!

I just want to know the truth! If it is that he is mentally ill then we can deal with it and work out access and arrangements but ExP and his parents seem to think that once he is back at work normal access will resume. I have repeatedly told them this will not happen but it deosn't seem to sink in. ExP was admitted to a psychiatric ward twice last summer but if I mention it now I just get fobbed off.

Sorry if this is all jumbled - I just want an objective person to tell me yes or no that he is mentally well/unwell. Either way once we know then we can work from there. But where do I go to get an independent opinion?

I've no idea, sorry. (XH is a bit doolally but not enough to be unsafe with DS, in my judgement, so it hasn't been an issue.) Would CAFCASS be a possible starting point? I think they would have to be involved anyway if you were considering restricting access and ExP's family objected.

I haven't worried about my sons safety when he has been to stay with his dad (he lives 50miles away) but something is making me uncomfortable about letting him up there. So far I have just said that until the sickness etc stops and he is back at work then access is at home. But when he DOES eventually return to work then what reason have I got to not allow DS up there?
DS didn't hear from his dad all summer and it really affected him - he has been having terrible mood swings. I don't know how best to help him.
Who/what are CAFCASS?

www.cafcass.gov.uk/

i had this with my ex......we were going through court so i insisted it be explored (his mental health)

he was ordered to have a 'forensic psychiatric asessment'....this was done with a psychiatrist at hospital. a long detailed examination of his mental health. revealed ALOT. revealed all medical appointments etc,and ended with a recomendation of his capabilities

I really don't want to go through court if I don't have to.
I have spoken to my HV and community nurse who referred me to the school nurse. Still waiting for call back from her. This is mainly to get help on my sons mood swings. But when I told ExP and his parents that I had done this they were less than impressed to say the least.
Tho IMO if they want to see DS they should be upfront and honest and willing to do as much as possible to allay any fears/worries I have. Or am I asking too much? Maybe it is as simple as sickness etc that has kept him off work for 6months.
Every instinct in me is screaming that its not tho. Am I overreacting purely based on what happened last year? This is what I mean about losing perspective? Am I?

well i had no choice,had to let it go to court,let HIM seek access......simply because i was in your situation!!

i had doubts about his mental health and instinct told me to get help and proper advice. you wont get it any other way

my ex was atempting suicide and abusing other women,and trying to involve the kids.had to put my foot down,and rightly so in our case!!

Contact CAFCASS and don't be afraid of going to court. It maybe the best way to get this all formalised, and to make sure someone knows what is really going on (especially as the family seem to be in denial). Especially if the behaviour is causing anxiety to your son.

YEs, contact CAFCASS, get the professionals involved and everything formalised. Please don't tiptoe round this man's feelings, while it may not be his fault that he's ill, your priority must be DS' welfare. You are perfectly entitled to insist on proper reassurances from MH professionals that it is safe for your DS to have unsupervised contact with his dad.
Bollocks to your XP's parents as well. Understandably they are concerned about their son, but your priority is your DS.

How awful dragonfly! Sorry to pry but was the result from the courts? Sorry if asking to much.
Sadly you're probably right, this will end up going the same way. He changes his story so much. He has said he is returning to work in 3-4 weeks as he is now better so I asked him why he has not returned now and he said that his work Doctor only signs you off in blocks of 6 weeks - how is that?? Yet last week he was too ill to speak to DS on the phone.
He is not a positive role model for DS (IMO) he doesn't care about teeth brushing/school work/even a half decent diet =- I could go on! But I don't know if this is just me being picky. Sorry if this doesn't make sense - there are so many little things but they all seem to add up to a lot IYSWIM.
The other thing is I also have DD (5) and DS2 (3months) I really don't want ExP and his dad here at the weekends when they are so precious to us (DH works shifts) but then I feel as tho I'm being selfish. If I suggest that they take him out even to the park I know that after a couple weeks they will stop bothering. i know that at that point I should go through the court- I just want DS to know I've done everything I can to enable him to have a relationship with his dad even if it means them spending Saturdays here. Sorry if not making sense - finding it very hard to articulate exactly what I mean.

Will contact CAFCASS for advice. Think that will be the best option.
SGB - thats it I think I have been tiptoeing around his feelings - I know its not his fault if he does have MH problems then I guess I didn't want to make things worse for him. Its just so hard to talk to him - he just clams up and becomes pratically mute. No more tiptoeing from me! Its all come to a head this time because it has so clearly affected DS. Think ExP and his parents just want it to go away and go back to old arrangements - if I go down the proffessional advice route then maybe they'll pull their heads out of the sand!

he wouldnt comply with the courts,kept failing to turn up,but also got in trouble with the law on several occasions,so it all ended up with him having no access......we had tried phone,building up to supervised,but he messed up by not calling at stated time etc.....cafcass were involved and recommended he wasnt serious about building up regular contact at all,so he isnt allowed to apply further for 5 years. he messed around too much

would your ex turn up for court,or answer all cafcass questions? it takes some effort from both sides,but my ex resented having his parenting role questioned,but happily admitted to beating up women,hitting his girlfriends kids and attempting suicide to get people to do as he wanted. he was eventually diagnosed as having a personality disorder......no barrier in itself from contact,but his reckless behaviour deteriorated so he ended up with nothing.

I honestly don't know if he would turn up to court or answer questions. I think in all probability no he wouldn't - but maybe he'd surprise me. His parents just think he is bone idle and work shy - they don't "believe" in mental illness. He has no social skills and I could imagine him almost imploding if I went down the official route.

Thankyou for sharing that Dragonfly - ExP hasn't done anything like that (thankfully). But something isn't right and I've got to get to the bottom of it for DS sake.

the thing is tho,if you prevent contact,he would need to be the one to get the ball rolling. he'd need to do something to get it to court,which means see a solicitor. you cant go to court to make him see your ds,it has to come from him.

he doesnt sound too bothered. so your ds will lose out completely. and court route is slow and would likely mean supervised contact in a contact centre maybe,to start. he'd hate that i'm guessing.

i dont know if cafcass can work on cases which arent in court system....but what i do know,is that they are extrememly busy,and the waiting list to be seen is long!

If I prevent access I can't imagine them taking me to court - they would hate to have any outside "interference".
Yes he would hate to go to a contact centre.
Maybe CAFCASS can advise rather than us become a case? If not I really don't know what to do other than wait until the next time he lets DS down and then tell him I've had enough?
Its so bloody infuriating because for years I have encouraged contact (I even did the 100mile roundtrip when i was 8months pregnant with DD and then when she was in a hip spica.) When i refused to do it anymore he got his father to do the journey instead. He won't even get the train to us! But then if he has got MH issues again and coupled with his lack of social skills it might unnerve him. You see I am trying to be understanding but my patience is wearing thin.

CAFCASS can't help nor give advice as we don't have any court involvement. She suggested that we try Social Services - does anyone have any experience/advice?

ring ss and ask....whenn i did similiar,they advised me to seek legal advise. without a case to refer to,they cant tell you what to do one way or another.

Thankyou

it is very difficult. very hard to get MH assessments. and info on the person.

so at the moment what contact is there?

ultimately you are repsonsible for sending your ds off with him or not.

based on my experience it is very difficult to get MH reports done etc - dragonfly (i think i know you by another name?) managed but in my case it has been really down to me toa ssess and decide day to day if ok to let them go unsupervised or not - having beent hru supervised and contact centre ...

at the moment exP is fairly "well" - is seeing dds unsupervised as they 10 and 8 and can react if needed.... after losing ds (who has severe learnign diffs autism special needs) in april and may when he had all 3 is now seeing ds only one on one as risk is less that he will lose him as has only one to think about.... so far this has been ok. tho is early days.

but am closely watching as he tends to "fall" in the "fall" . GP wont give you any info. CAFCASS wont get info either - tho if you g to court then they may get involved to do a "section 7" report.... but you would need to eb going with evidence of risk to your ds etc.

(exP was admitted to psych unit voluntarily in 2007 tho denies it was needed - he had been self harming and was violent towards me and DS; he went off ot his family til dec 07, returned "for christmas" then refused to elave; in 2008 he was v abusive and i left with DC - he was violent again in august 2008; i took him to court to apply for residence and formalise contact arrangements - led to supervised contact only - was extremely depressed in sept to december 2009 and was supported by a lady from his church who described to me how she "picked him up from the floor" quite literally...during that time he failed to make contact, was unable to cook for the dcs etcetc - at that point he only had supervised contact.)

focus on your DS - get GP referral to CAMHS child and adolescent mental health to see a child psychologist or GP referral to family tehrapist so he can talk about his issues with seeing/not seeing dad - those profressionals can then advise you on what would be best for child in terms of ocntact...they may be able to feed into the system.

who has residence? you do rpesumably but has this been formalised?

you can apply to court for a reidence order in your favour -whihc is what i did - this then automatically puts the contact arrangemetns into teh formal court arena.

if he agrees and agrees with proposed contaft arrangemetns then it will only take couple of hearings - not tooexpensive - if he contests then of course will take more hearings and cost more...

one thing i have learned is not to worry about his reaction or what impact it will have on his MH - that is HIS problem - you focus on your child and your child's needs - your ds needs formalised contact arrangements, then if exP doesnt turn up he will learn to understand it is exP not you.

make sure your child is safe - but probably you do need to formalise residence and contact. eg by going to solicitor and submitting applicaiton (that bit is not too costly - you coudl do it yourself court fees around 150£ - if it sends him over the edge - well it is HIS responsibility to seek help for that, not yours.

you need to be protecting ds if exP is ill.

Thankyou Cestlavie.
There were no visits over the summer holiday. Last visit was a week ago when ExP and his dad visited for an hour (I initiated that contact by contacting ExPs father due to texts/phonecalls being ignored - I wish to God i hadn't now but thought I was doing the right thing).
Previous contact has been twice a month for 24hours.
ExP has no history of violence or abuse its more internalising and imploding if that makes sense?
Re the residence well ExP & I broke up when I was 3months pregnant with DS - he doesn't have PR. Do I still need to have a residence order? All contact and mainenance so far has been informal.
CAHMS seems a good route.DS insists he is fine with the situation but I have seen his reactions when he finally gets a phonecall from his dad - he is high as a kite then within minutes he hates the world and says everything is awful - is this normal for a 10yo? He is incredibly intelligent but struggles to articulate what he is feeling - just that he feels bad. I don't feel I truly know what he thinks about the situation.
ExP never just not turns up I just get a text the night before saying he is ill. I don't think it will happen again for a while now that I have his Father involved but am sure it will at some point.
I can see what will happe for the forseeable future - they will visit here sit around for an hour with a cup of tea not really do anything with DS or interact properly then leave feeling as tho their job is done.
It all feels so wishy-washy if that makes sense.

contact is not dependent on PR - my exP does not have PR.

so exP is not asking for residence at all?
is exP asking for contact?

i think i not too clea really - is your exP asking for contact then not turning up?
or at the moment he not that interested going by teh summer adn you worried about future?

does ds initiate contact eg call or text him? what happens then?

i think maybe you have to let your exP/his father lead on the contact, and make it clear to ds that his father is/has been ill. explain a little about mental illness? if he ahs been saying he is "ill" then maybe explain to DS about him having a long term illness which make sit difficult, and because of his previous mental health issues.

it is very confusing - when my exP was doing this it was awful on the days they were suppsoed to see him -as we really would not know for sure until five minutes before when we got text saying "i am ill cannot come". very confusing for children... the uncertainty...

need to reduce that somehow? maybe once a month contact for now?

what does DS get out of contact?

and get your DS talking to a counsellor/family therapist/school teacher/school nurse.

how does your ds get on with your H/his step dad? presumably all fine ?
is there a desire to have his "real dad" around? does he get any benefit from seeing his dad for on hour? what is the point? (not needing answers just questions to consider maybe - maybe for your DS to process too....)

thing is going thru courts wont force your exP to have contact or to make contact - you cant make him it is his choice.

the loser is your ds which isn't fair....but if your exP is not initiating or seeking contact then not much you can do other than support your ds.

Sorry if I'm not clear. Up unitl Feb this year DS saw his dad twice a month overnight. Then he started cancelling saying he was ill. In June he stopped phoning altogether. I treid to contatc him but his phone was always switched off hence why I contacted to his Father. ExP does want to see DS but its almost as if unless others arrange/do the travelling then he is unable to cope with it.
DS very much wants to see his dad - what does he get out of it? I'm not sure really - on a shallow level probably the chance to have 24hrs where he can play on the PS2, eat what he wants, no rules to abide by and no need to waste time by keeping up with personal hygiene! Plus no annoying sister around! Also, i think because its his dad and he wants to see him.
No ExP wouldn't go for residence - I'm concerned that this cycle is going to coontinue - he keeps in touch for a few months then loses touch for a while. Not fair on DS.
When ExP was admitted to hospital last year I explained to DS about MH and we had some good chats about it. This time I haven't discussed it specifically from that angle because of the denials that its the cause. I think CAHMS/school nurse is the way to go.
Thankyou for replying. Sorry if it doesn't all make sense - its hard because there is nothing really solid to go on, only last years episode, and this feeling that I get that all is not right with ExP. He hasn't done or said anything - think thats the problem - he just almost disappears and avoids all contact for a while.
Will chase up the School nurse. We are supposed to have been referred to her so will see what she says.