Can someone explain to me in simple terms. USA elections

(416 Posts)
ihatethecold Fri 31-Aug-12 07:44:35

What are the main differences between Obama and romney?
Is Obama like labour and Romney like very right conservative?

Why does Romney say he will get rid of the healthcare bill that Obama brought in.

Did it not work?
why wouldn't you want people without insurance to access healthcare ?
Thanks

nightlurker Fri 31-Aug-12 21:06:47

Illegal immigration has been heated debate lately. Some of the border states have had problems with drug cartels, and have attempted to take a strong stance against illegal immigrants (such as Arizona).

The sad thing about the debate is that the views of the majority are rarely heard. Most of us would want to see people come to the country the right way (make it easier and better to immigrate legally), but understand when people flee from oppressive governments (such as Cuba). Most people I've talked to believe that illegal immigrants who commit crimes should be deported. I've met a lot of people who believe that illegal immigrants should be required to go home and immigrate the correct way, and believe the system is unfair to immigrants who actually abide by the law and come here legally.

HmmThinkingAboutIt Fri 31-Aug-12 21:06:48

The trouble is Ponders the televsion is too biased to question that. We are used to having biased newspapers but we have (relatively) unbiased television.

In the US television is more like our newspapers and have an editorial biased - eg Fox is pro-republican. Its a more powerful media than newspapers.

The only saving grace and counter to that is the rise of the internet, but that relies on people seeking alternative news sources; people who are by that very nature more likely to be liberal...

nightlurker Fri 31-Aug-12 21:12:39

Ponders, it's really not fair to judge a whole party based on the statements of one person.

There are only two news stations that I consider truly biased, and they are MSNBC and Fox News (the cable version). The regular MSN and Fox stations are actually decent news sources. One does lean more left, and the other more right, but it's not over the top.

Personally, I can't stand MSNBC or the cable Fox News channel.

nightlurker Fri 31-Aug-12 21:14:47

The regular NBC station is what I meant to say, not MSN.

Ponders Fri 31-Aug-12 21:16:10

Ponders, it's really not fair to judge a whole party based on the statements of one person

Fair enough, nightlurker

I am waiting (without bated breath) for the Official Republican Party to distance itself from Ryan's speech hmm

HmmThinkingAboutIt Fri 31-Aug-12 21:17:33

Ponders, also worth remembering that if the democrats are doing the same we are less likely to hear about it, as our media is overwhelmingly pro-Obama.

TalkinPeace2 Fri 31-Aug-12 21:20:15

Some of the best analysis at the moment is here
www.economist.com/world/us-elections-2012
as the Economist by instinct leans to a pro business right - but is also VERY anti protectionism and excessive inequality as it tends to jump up and bite the rich later ....

FootLikeATractionEngine Fri 31-Aug-12 21:21:08

I haven't paid as much attention this time around as I did in the last election (largely because of despair that the race to the bottom is given so much validity), but in the last election Nat Silver at 538 provided some much needed intellectual rigour in the analysis. I don't know how the move to the NYT has affected his coverage, but his stats and commentary certainly used to be worth checking out.

Ponders Fri 31-Aug-12 21:23:14

Ponders, also worth remembering that if the democrats are doing the same we are less likely to hear about it, as our media is overwhelmingly pro-Obama

um - not sure they could be doing the same at this point, Hmm hmm

by "our media" do you mean eg the Telegraph??? the Times??? "overwhelmingly pro-Obama"? really?

"The Democrats are often tagged as 'socialist' but they make even New Labour look like a bunch of hard left radicals."

Think the Democrats make even the Tory party look like hard left radicals. I mean really, the 'right' to be insured hmm... as that's all the 'Obamacare' really amounts to, is that people cannot be refused medical insurance...

HmmThinkingAboutIt Fri 31-Aug-12 21:37:05

I mean ALL of our media Ponders. From the BBC to the Times and Torygraph. Republican ideas are, for the most part, very very alien concepts to most Europeans, its not just the British - the Tea Party really hasn't helped matters. It scares us, so the press and politicians automatically look to what we feel closer to. Its everything from gun laws, abortion, religion, social security, legislation and involvement of government to foreign policy and diplomacy.

Definitely a pro-Obama leaning across the whole of europe.

Ponders Fri 31-Aug-12 21:44:12

I still doubt that, Hmm. not pro-Obama as such - just anti completely-loony-right-wing (cf Clint Eastwood shock)

Of the mainstream UK media, the BBC is probably most left-of-centre

Of the rest, they lean to the right (apart from the Guardian & Mirror) but even so, the Republicans clearly scare them rigid on "gun laws, abortion, religion, social security, legislation and involvement of government to foreign policy and diplomacy"

God help the rest of the world if Romney gets in

HmmThinkingAboutIt Fri 31-Aug-12 21:47:35

And thats not anti-romney? pro-obama?

TalkinPeace2 Fri 31-Aug-12 21:48:11

Ponders
My Dad (lives in NY) sends me links to what he thinks are left of centre articles - they are BEYOND the Daily Mail.

NONE of the UK press is much to the right of Obama let alone as far right as much of the GOP including Romney

NicholasTeakozy Fri 31-Aug-12 22:01:20

Romney Marsh and Ryan are bigger liars than our idiotic right. F'rinstance Romney mentioned in his speech about creating jobs for Americans, conveniently forgetting that Bain Capital, the venture capital company he was paid by until about three years ago, arranged leveraged buyouts of American manufacturing companies, bled them till they were dry then exported the jobs to the Far East, keeping the brand alive but upping profit margin.

Ryan mentioned in his speech a car factory closed by O'Bama. It actually shut when the shaved monkey Bush was president.

The Republicans make our Toryscum look like socialists. Which is probably why people like IBS and Grayling got ministerial posts. For added crazy.

zamantha Fri 31-Aug-12 22:07:30

Really enjoying this thread - so interesting.

I'd like to think Europe preferred Obama - the tea party nutters are plain scary!
Just horrid they are allowed out and about smiling through their hateful ideas.

Good o Obama he ha smade a small move forward on health care smile

EnjoyResponsibly Fri 31-Aug-12 22:10:43

I think that it has not helped the Tea Party one bit that Sarah Palin was its poster girl. Seems to me that Ryan is just her slightly more sane replacement* and that he definitely makes up Romneys shortfallings as far as the Republican base is concerned.

*it being a question of degrees, I can't actually believe a word that he utters

DisabilEightiesChick Fri 31-Aug-12 22:11:12

It is incredibly difficult in this country, I think, to understand the mindset of such extreme opposition to state-provided healthcare, even among the more left-wing voters in the US. I really, really don't get it, but there it is.

So much good info on this thread - I'm throwing in a few more questions:

- What is the 'you didn't build that' thing all about? I've seen lots of references to it in the last few days as an Obama gaffe the Republicans are exploiting.

- I have finally worked out, I think, what 'GOP' means as a commonly-used way of referring to the Republicans. God's Own Party? Am I right?

TalkinPeace2 Fri 31-Aug-12 22:11:46

Zamantha a very small move though .... and he took steps backwards on many other things
he's not been great sadly - but the alternatives are scary - for European peace if nothing else

Ponders Fri 31-Aug-12 22:13:34

officially it means Grand Old Party hmm

but you're probably right, DisabilEightiesChick hmm

nightlurker Fri 31-Aug-12 23:07:40

The theory behind opposing nationalized healthcare is that free market health care will progress more quickly, and provides better care in the long run. Unfortunately, free market health care went out the window when insurance companies became so involved. The second reason people oppose it is financial. We are far in debt, our deficit is huge, and another massive expense isn't very appealing at the moment.

The you didn't build that comes from this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6no5ng. He was probably talking about roads with the "you didn't build that" comment, but the way he said it, with that brief tongue tie, it almost sounded like he was saying that you didn't build your own business. I think he was referring to roads, so I only really take one issue with what he said. Businesses who ship things on the roads use diesel fuel, and therefore pay a higher tax rate on the gas than they would if they used regular fuel. Additionally, they use far more fuel than individuals generally do. In that sense, through gasoline tax, the businesses have significantly helped to fund and maintain the roads they use to build their business, according to how much they use those roads.

worldcitizen Fri 31-Aug-12 23:47:36

HmmThinking I truly love your comments (also on the tip thread), they have so much depth and so much substance backed up by accuracy...may I ask where you're from?
I am a Wolverine myself smile

NovackNGood Fri 31-Aug-12 23:59:37

Romney ... Claims he graduated from Harvard but actuall grauated from a Mormon university and only spent a year out taking some classes at Harvard

Despite that when he was young enough to take part in the Vietnam war being a rich young white right winger he did what any rich young healthy white right winger would do and ran off to super socialist France in 1966 to avoid the draft and only returned to the US after he collided his car with another car killing his passenger. daddy had him rushed back to the US where he was again healthy young and of course available for the draft so he did what any good young healthy man eligeable for the draft does and gets married within weeks of his return, despite his relationship with his now to to be wife being non existant whilst in France. Being married of course meant he could now avoid the draft again for the following year or two. And yet he now claims that despite hs rush to go to serve his country in the war it was suspire for him to know that when his daddy was running to be president in 1968 (you know the year he was hiding in france= his father campaigned against the war)

Most likely to want to start a war with Iran or to only realise after the fact that Israel started a war with Iran but due to his faith will blindy support them no matter what as his religion is dispensationalist.

Wants to return US to private healthcare only through private healthcare companies because well private insurance always works and never has get out clauses do they.

Used to be pro abortion then anti then agin he was pro then when he had a chance to be president he became anti again cause lets face it his party have passed over 1000 state laws that are against a woman's right to her control her body in the last year alone, including that conception starts not from fertiliation but at your last period and drinking can be seen as child endangerment of the foetus even during those two weeks of course before yo were knocked up. Draconian did you say

Promises to sign off on tax cuts that will go the folks who earn over 5 million a year as enough is just never enough especially if like him you have so many houses.

Refuses to realease his own tax returns for the last decade as is the custom in the US to allow people to see just how much you fiddled or not to judge your character

And insulted the London Olympics at his first opportunity despite his own olympics being bankrolled by his church and only the little winter games that you can have in a swiss village anyway.

Daddy made millions for the car industry but when the car industry faltered he was against giving any goverment backed loans which would have led to 100s of thousand out of work within months if the loans did not happen.

NovackNGood Sat 01-Sep-12 00:01:12

Obama ...Actually did graduate from Harvard University Law school magna Cum laude in other words top few percent of his class and was voted editor of the student law magazine and bright enough to be a professor of law at another University with in 5 years of graduation. During that time he had also set up a voter registration drive with 10 staff and enrolled over 400,000 disenfranchised electorate to the polls in the subsequent election.

Actaully did what Bush failed to do for 12 years which was to quietly go about eh job of getting Usama Bin laden his just desserts

Actually for the fist time in history has introduced a healthcare system that means you will no longer be turned away from treatment in the USA if you are one of the third of the population that cannot afford to pay the private health companies insurance and therefore the old the infirm unemployed etc will all be covered at last as any first world country should be and without the scheme costing anyone to loose their right to still pay through the nose if they want to.

Despite being lumbered by BUSH signing off to create the largest deficit in world history has steered the US economy out of recession and whilst EU jobless as soared the US the actual us jobless figures are some of the best of the world inspite of the largest debtor. Refuses to offer tax cuts to individuals who earn over 5 million a year so the silly republicans keep blocking the budget votes.

Released his tax returns birth certificate medical so you can see he is a stand up guy.

Stood with the Arab world and the Brits and French to aid the arab spring and the removal of the tyrannts Muburak and Gadaffi without risking any lives or inflamation of arab sensitivities

Pushed the private enterprises to the be the solution to space travel so that now there are 3 independant companies that are capable of flying craft to the international space station at dramitcally reduced cost to the taxpayer.

Signed of the loans necessary to save the car industry in the US keeping it a strong manufacturer and seeing all loans repaid including interest and profit for the governement despite right wing opposition.

HmmThinkingAboutIt Sat 01-Sep-12 00:05:37

I'm British but have studied American History and Politics as part of my degree. Got a couple of close friends who are either American or emigrated there too so thats helped. I just find the subtule and not so subtule differences in culture fascinating. I'm sure it bores the tits off most other people, but not me. I would love to the opportunity to live in the States at some point in my life, but thats a tough one with visas etc.

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