Mumsnet Talk

My ds has only really just started having tantrums at 2.7, so I'm not sure how to deal with them. At home I normally just ignore them,but more often than not he does them in shops, playgroups etc

Todays was because he wanted to march about playing a drum while all the other children sat cross legged and listened to a story/song. I removed the drum, he screamed the place down, I ignored him but it continued, tried distracting him, he kept on crying, then eventually decided to take him out of the room and he went hysterical, tried to bite me etc

We had a few mins outside, he seemed calm so we went back in and he resumed screaming so no-one could hear the singing lady. I ended up just carrying him straight out of playgroup (still crying) and he whinged all the way home. Still whinging actually!

What should I be doing?

Exactly what you are doing and maybe if he keeps doing this, stop going to the groups for a bit.

Ds was a lot like this, he really didn't like these sorts of group activities (music groups, story grroups, singing groups etc) groups and it took me a while to realise it. He would do absolutely everything not to co-operate. He wanted to do what he wanted and not what the group was doing (come to think of it he is still a bit like that at 5.3 years old )

In the end I got the message and stopped forking out money for these things and just left the toddler groups when the usual final sing-along/story time started at the end.

Thanks. He usually loves the singing bit but what he really wants is to be standing right in the middle, either shouting, dancing, or preferably banging a big loud drum so everybody stares at him - he doesn't get this from me!

He did it last time we were there (stood in the middle banging a drum throughout) despite me begging him to sit down and sing - everyone laughed and thought it was cute, but he can't disrupt the group every time like it's one rule for him and another for everyone else. It seems every time I try to enforce a rule like that we have a meltdown. Not keen on that biting either.

My DS 2.9 has started these tantrums when we are out.

It's because of new DD 12 weeks.

I warned him we were going home if he carried it on and he did - so we did.
He was carried out stiff as a board in t-shirt as he was lying on the floor lashing out at me.

I took him back next again week and he did it again and I lifted him out again.

I told him we would not go to fun playgroups anymore.

Ive noticed that while he is going through this, there are certain activities/times of days he acts up with so im avoiding them and doing calmer stuff.

He is fine at Rhyme Time at the Library as he knows everyone. He's calm one to one with his little friends and he is fine with relatives.
I can't have him out after 2pm as he gets too knackered too.

Try to do stuff he is ok with just now but make sure you do carry through the threats as this has a big impact on them - they know not to mess!

DS has not had a tantrum since I dragged him out second time after warning him. I think I actually set him up - went there hoping he would challange me!!

*tell him what you expect from him before you go somewhere and what will happen if he misbehaves
*remove from the situation (so take him outside like you did)
*calmly explain to him why his behavior is wrong and that there will be a few mins time out, unless you are at home for time out I would stay with him
*ask him for an apology if he is able to speak well he should be able to tell you what he is sorry for. Cuddle and remind him that you love him... he is very special.
* praise all the good things he does like sharing toys, sitting nicely, eating with cutlery, using good manners.

This is our strategy, when we stick to this it works. I also try to give DS options that he understands. I say something like, "would you like to stay here and sit down nicely or would you like to leave now and go home". Also never give a threat to leave that your not prepared to carry out, children can become wise to that I've watched it happen before.

Good advice so far... Identifying meltdown times is a good one. DD is liable to pre lunch and pre tea meltdowns - presumably because she's starting to get hungry/tired. Make sure you're giving decent snacks

It will pass and most of the parents there will have to or have had to deal with them, so don't be too concerned what they are thinking.

My DS (now just 23 months old) used to run a mile when "circle time" started (he was 18 months old when I joined the group). At first I used to try and get him to sit with me like everyone else but then I just realised that meant onset of tantrum and because I think he was (still is a bit) too young to understand I decided to sit there on my own and mostly ignore him running around like a loon (though really thought it was quite sweet him running free and not conforming).

Eventually, usually right at the end, he used to come and sit with us of his own accord. Now he sits down at the start and loves joining in. It was so worth leaving him to it and no-one minded. People were just not as bothered as I thought they might be. But then this group I go to is very relaxed and the people who run it are easy going and don't enforce strict rules as such.

I decided it wouldn't be worth going if I had a battle every week. It just sorted itself out - but I'd have stopped going like a shot if it had become a major problem.

Brilliant advice.
It's very difficult isn't it.

I'm glad I'm finding out that it doesn't actually stop at aged 3.
I'm having a new baby in a few weeks and 3yoDS just got a hell of a lot worse.
At least I know I'm doing the right thing in buying the phil and ted's vibe (big strong pram) to strap him into in public when he plays up.
I honestly cannot envision coping otherwise with him and a newborn. I can't leave newborn in street and run after him, I'm a single mum and have many things to do.

Jesus, I wish there were some instant sedative meds tots could be given, so stressed just thinking about his tantrums, at the worse of possible times too * cries *

mummoyoftwosoon Dont worry, they all act up at end of PG! My DS calmed down when she arrived and has only kicked off again because of her constant crying (im the one with the reflux baby)!

I have only recently got all the tantrum stuff sorted with DS.
I have this thing where I count to three, it is a variation on the counting to three and then a bloody good hiding that my parents used to use.

I tell him 'DS if you dont stop x I will count to three and if you havent done x by the time I count to three I will (insert suitable punishement e.g. turn DVD off, put left out toys in a bin bag, put tou in your room or the best now is 'be very cross with you''
I then start counting very slowly to three, usually by the time I reach two he has put toys away, stopped tantrum, got dressed. The important thing is to follow through everytime. In turn you have to try and think carefully about the punishment.

So I would say to DS if in your situation that if he doesnt out the drum down by the time you have counted to three you will put him on time out. I think sometimes its the threat not so much the punishment. I hope it doesnt sound too harsh but I tried many things and had a nightmare time with DS to the point that I didnt actually want to spend anytime on my own with him as I felt I couldnt cope with the tantrums etc. this all stopped when H left and I was completly alone with him, I then managed to get him to sleep on his own, eat, get dressed, do things with him. Life is much better with him now but there was a lot of trial and error involved.

Hope this helps

Try to maintain a sense of humour. I usually try to remove offending offspring from the audience, but if that's not possible, I play to them

"I understand that you are having a terrible day, ds, and that being 2 is a truly trying experience. Feel free to have a good shout about it- I'll be here with a hug when you're finished. Oooh, look at all these people staring at you, they probably think we are both stark-raving mad. Never mind- I'm sure MOST mums of 2yo's have this experience from time to time, we surely can't be THAT strange" (By this time most people have shuffled past, trying not to catch your eye )

Alternatively, I have picked said child up under my arm and carried on with whatever i was doing. Anyone who gapes open-mouthed at me with screaming writhing dervish under my arm gets an overly bright smile and a "It's a lovely magical age, isn't it?"

Rugby ball hold, remove from area with brittle toothy grin

DH and I have both done our share of carrying DTD2 out of restaurants, shops and parks.

FairyBubbles and NewLease have good advice and it sounds as if you are doing the right thing too.

There is no point reasoning with someone in a tantrum, shouting just means two people are yelling which makes everything twice as loud, you can't ignore them when they are disturbing a whole activity for other people, removing them is pretty much the only way to go.

The worst story I heard was from my ex-boss's wife who carried her tantrumming DS out of a supermarket. All the way through the shop he was screaming 'This is not my mommy!!!!'. Nobody reacted though which is a bit odd.

Oh thank you for your tales - it so helps to hear we're not alone.
DD is only 18m but has the most awful meltdowns as she's fiercely independent and wants everything NOOOOWWWWWW. (They do scare me a bit tbh).

I love the advice about removing, waiting till calmer than teling her she is very loved. It's along the lines of what DP and I have been trying to do as it's not her that we dislike but her behaviour.
Once she's older I may try the choices question.
Thanks all

You get used to the tantrums after a while. DTD2 used to rampage upstairs making a noise like Godzilla devastating Tokyo. She also used to lie on the floor and flip herself along on her back under the cat bed or a cushion a bit like a catfish going for shelter. Once when we were extremely jetlagged, DTD1 and I were lying on a bed while DTD2 was tantrumming UNDER the bed. We were too exhausted to do anything about it and just lay there rolling our eyes at each other.

Another time when the twins were 4 and DTD2 was throwing a strop while we were on holiday.
DTD1: I hope she doesn't behave like THAT when we are at school. (in extremely judgmental tone with accompanying cat bum mouth)
DTD2: I WON'T
DTD1: Well while are you behaving like it on our lovely vacation then?

That took the wind out of DTD2's sails a bit.

MadamDeathStare I love the sound of your twins! so funny that one sounds a couple of years older than the other.

this is a brilliant thread. lmao! and you're all handling it brilliantly .

M.Deathstare - your girls sound fab!

You are SO not alone.

DD1, aged nearly five can still do fabulous tantrums; like yesterday morning when she screamed non-stop for 20 minutes. Luckily we live in a very rural area otherwise I am SURE we would have had concerned phone calls. My poersonal way of dealing with it is just to remove myself from the scene (in a safe way obviously); no performance without an audience.

At our playgroup we couldnt leave as I was running the thing so I used to give a warning for bad behaviour (tho not tantrums) and then put ds in his buggy in much the same manner as coldtits.

When he had a meltdown at other singing groups where we all had to sit in a circle etc we had a talk before going where I said we would leave if x happened and then you just have to follow it through with gritted teeth trying not to think about the money spent and the time taken to get there etc.

Just stay calm - I think if you are going to leave, though, you need to be pretty decisive. Going in and out of the playgroup confuses the message. At nearly 3 they are old enough to understand 'stop shouting/do as the lady says/calm down.. or we will have to leave'.

My approach was to take them to one side to try to distract/calm down, but once we left the room we were on our way home.

In shops they get put in the buggy and ignored, even if it takes me several minutes to wrestle them in. I don't ever push or shove them, but I don't let them fight me off, either.

And a tantrum is one thing - you can try to talk them out of that - but biting and hitting me always resulted in us leaving instantly, with a pretty big telling off on the way.

But that comes from several years of practice and an attitude that I now really don't care what anyone else thinks of me! You need to work out a 'process' in your mind so you get less flustered and you are pretty firm in reacting to the tantrum and biting etc.

hi james! nice to see you again! gawd mila has been horrific with the tantrums too. we had a couple of months where anything and everything would set her off. such a relief when they suddenly stopped.

lots of great advice, esp the talking about expected behaviour. this has worked really well for us, have a chat about it while you're playing with bricks or similar remind your ds how you had to take him out and he missed the fun last time and talk it through how it could have been so much more fun if he had of x,y,z... then talk about it the day before you go to the group again.

good luck!

totally bookmarking this thread for reference in 3mo time.

DS is amazing, but starting. I'm pre-empting major throwdowns.

Good thing i'm more stubborn consistent that him

I would go with grit your teeth and get him out of there. It really is unfair to the other kids and the leader to let him scream, even for a little bit.

I'm all for ignoring tantrums at other times -- at home, at parks, in shops, on the pavement-- but not in groups where other people (who have, presumably, also paid) are being well-behaved and should ge tot participate.

On the other hand, if he has a meltdown every time you try to enforce a rule, it sounds like a control issue. Dig in your heels in the stuff that matters, but try to give him more independence in other ways if you can.

3 is more of an age for tantrums than 2, IME.

Having similar issues with DD1 just now (2.4) about total trivia... e.g. breaking a biscuit in two to give her half resulted in total meltdown in a coffee shop the other day. I'm employing the same tactics as most people I think- removal from the situation asap tucked under arm (no mean feat when overdue by 10 days with DD2 and carrying several shopping bags!)
It did crack me up when she yelled at top volume a quote from "The Cat in the Hat" -
"PUT ME DOWN-THIS IS NO FUN AT ALL!!"