Mumsnet Talk

After years and years of fil running up credit card debt, and mil digging them out with good budgeting, careful planning and then 5 years ago taking full control of thier finances, they have been debt free.

MIL gives fil an allowance of £10 per week to get his papers etc.
He works about 40 hours a week, she does not due to health issues.

He cannot be trusted with money at all.

MIL is now terminally ill. BIL lives with them & has taken over the bills, and running household expenses. There will bil & fil wage going in when she has gone.

The family is naturally very veyr worried, that fil will just go wild when she has gone as she has always kept a very tight leash on him. They are worried that there will be debt collectors knocking, the house will be at risk, and that they will be left to sort out fils debt as mil has had to do.

Is there anything they can do to protect everything?
MIL intends on re-doing her will as soon as possible, what should she specify in it?
She (God love her) is spending her final weeks/months worried to death about this.
Any advice on this weird one is gratefully recieved.(will be seeing a solicitor anyway, but guidance is what i seek for now)
Thankyou.

I am of no use legally but here are money management courses around at the moment, would he be willing to go to one of those to learn to manage money?

If they could transfer the house to your BIL it would not be at risk.

She could leave her half of the house to her children with a right for her husband to live in it until he dies. I presume it will not be worth over inheritance tax limits.

The father though could still then spend his own wages. It's hard to see how he could be forced to hand it to the son in law to manage for him although that could be put to him that the BIL will take charge of the father in law's money too because that's what is done now and it works so well and he might agree to that.

She could leave her half of the house to her children with a right for her husband to live in it until he dies. I presume it will not be worth over inheritance tax limits.

??? if he was bankrupt the creditors could still force a sale of the house to settle his debts in that case.

what about power of attourney?
He'd have to sign an agreement.

The onyl other way is that you have your FIL's wages paid into one of your accounts (ie set up a trustee account), and then pay his bills for him, get his shopping etc, and then give him a weekly allowance from it.

None of that would stop him getting a credit card and racking up debt potentially resulting in the forced sale of the home.

no, it wouldn't

If he will agree to the bil continuing to manage his finances then that is fine. He would hawever be entitled to have his money back immediately that he asked for it.

The exception would be if your fil has a mental impairment that prevents him from having the capacity to handle money, though from what you say it doesnt sound like that is the case.

It's better to leave your half of the house to the children than not though because the creditors cannot get that half surely? If she left it all to the husband the creditors would get it all.

Then in addition as I said also try to persuade the husband to let the brother in law manage his money. he might even be happy to transfer his half of the house now to the children too.

Yes it's true that leaving the mother's part to the children (combined with a re-registration of title as tenants in common) will protect half of any equity in the house, but it won't stop the house being sold to realise the husband's half leaving the son homeless.

Gifting the house to the children now (easiest if there are four or fewer children) will prevent that. Legal advice necessary.

Whe could put her share of the house in trust so that he has a life interest only.

No, that will still only solve half the problem.

ok, although very grateful for this info..i am now totally confused.com!

can any one clarify what MIL should do?

I don't get what you think she can do. Unless FIL is willing to put his half of the property into trust now, she has no right to deal with his interst in it. If he wants to rack up debt and lose his interest in the house, that's what personal freedom is all about.

I know you are right about personal freedom and it is his wages after all.

We will have no choice but to have nothing more to do with fil from the day that mil dies, i refuse to clean up after him or take him in when the house becomes re possessed.

My biggest worry is that when he wracks up thousands of pounds of debt, that debt will pass to bil or us to clear when he cant/wont and after the house is sold..leaving bil homeless.

His debt will not pass to anyone else, though will be taken from whatever estate he has.

What are the reasons he racks up debt when in control of his money himself?

Gambling, alcohol, no impulse control, compulsive shopper? Or just shit with money?

Is he happy with current situation of having his money managed?

Is the mortgage paid off?

Possibly if the dcs own half the house, and the house is sold, FILs half will go to pay debts and he will have to live in rented and claim HB. The dcs half can be used to re-house BIL and keep FIL fed and clothed for the rest of his life.

If he owns the whole house and he loses the lot then there will be no money to re-house BIL and no spare cash to buy FIl new socks (assuming his own income/pension will be spent on other things).

He has no boundries, has no impulse control, is shit with money, buys utter utter crap, has no priorities whatsoever.

He is selfish, self centred and has never ever said sorry for all that he has done, nor has he ever thanked dh & his mum for sorting his mess out.

MIL all of her married life has had nothing, because of him.
No gambling, no alcohol, nothing like that.

Years and years of misery, past, years and years of misery future.

Is it possible that once the safety net provided by his wife is no longer there that your fil might becaome more responsible because he then would be risking more than he is at present?

They were bought the house as a wedding present.
He wracked up debt with credit cards, so they had to take a mortgage out on the property to pay off his debts.
fil retires in 3 years, the mortgage will be paid off in 3 years.

He has absolutely no concience, does not give a shit.

potentially he could have lost his family, but that didnt stop him, when she has gone he will have no one to answer to. It will be worse.

The debt will not pass to you and you BIL has a wage and can provide his own home. There is almost nothing you can do unless your FIL chooses to give it all away now (and not sure if this would be seen as divisive is he was then to get into lots of debt and had no way to pay it)

As frustrating as it is it is none of your business what your FIL does with his home, none at all.

If BIL has now taken over the financial management already, theoretically FIL might be happy to let that continue. I agree that MIL should leave her house to the children, but with a right for FIL to live there- that way at least half of the value of the property will be safe.

Perhaps (let's hope...) his credit rating is now so poor that he wouldn't be able to get a credit card in the future, even if he wanted to.

Sorry to hear about your MIL's illness, btw.