Mass-murder in Charleston church

(64 Posts)
DoughDoe Thu 18-Jun-15 19:12:54

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33190735

The killer appears to fit typical sort of mass shooter profile - young, 'loner', male. Apparently he attended an hour's bible study in the black church, before opening fire.

It's not clear if it was a random anti-black hate crime, or if the pastor, one of the dead, a Democratic state senator, was the target. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clementa_C._Pinckney

The killer's getaway vehicle bore Confederate flag plates, and he had a jacket with Rhodesia and apartheid-era South Africa flags. time.com/3926593/charleston-killer-flags/

creighton Thu 18-Jun-15 21:25:52

it's the inevitable result of white supremacy, the need for violence and the 'right to bear arms'.

NomiMalone Thu 18-Jun-15 21:28:31

After the guy was caught the local mayor said "In America we don't let bad guys like this get away."

You also happily equip them with the guns and bullets in the first place.

hmm

creighton Thu 18-Jun-15 21:37:43

surely this act of violence is a part of the continuum of violent behaviour towards black people in Charleston, after all it was here, a few weeks ago, that the policeman shot the black man in the back for no reason. people are acting like they are surprised at this attack.

notice how they arrest this white murderer rather than shoot him dead in the street. if he had been black, his body would be in the morgue by now.

creighton Thu 18-Jun-15 21:51:42

surely this act of violence is a part of the continuum of violent behaviour towards black people in Charleston, after all it was here, a few weeks ago, that the policeman shot the black man in the back for no reason. people are acting like they are surprised at this attack.

notice how they arrest this white murderer rather than shoot him dead in the street. if he had been black, his body would be in the morgue by now.

DoughDoe Thu 18-Jun-15 22:57:29

I've a feeling he would be better off in the morgue. He's not going to be getting out after six years in a cushy prison. This is the USA he will be going to a hole where they feed you through a letter box and you have no contact with others

Holowiwi Thu 18-Jun-15 23:44:14

They always seem to catch white mass murderers alive whereas black people are gunned down in the streets by the people who are supposed to protect them. Not to mention if this person was muslim who would be called a terrorist.

America needs to look into it's gun laws but nothing will change.

Holowiwi Thu 18-Jun-15 23:44:46

Who? Meant he

InanimateCarbonRod Thu 18-Jun-15 23:45:53

Freely available guns in what can only be described as an open air lunatic asylum. America is a scary place.

DoughDoe Fri 19-Jun-15 03:35:05

"They always seem to catch white mass murderers alive whereas black people are gunned down in the streets by the people who are supposed to protect them."

That's bollocks, the US police killed 1100 people last year, most of them were white, and very few made the news.

www.killedbypolice.net/kbp2014.html

DoughDoe Fri 19-Jun-15 03:35:33

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HagOtheNorth Fri 19-Jun-15 06:24:42

'He also raised the issue of gun ownership, saying: "At some point, we as a country have to reckon with the fact that this type of massacre does not happen in other advanced countries".'

A brave man, President Obama.
Massacres do happen in other countries, but with nothing like the frequency that they do in the States. To the point where if I read a headline saying 'x number of people were gunned down in a massacre,' I'm stunned if it isn't the USA.

Holowiwi Fri 19-Jun-15 06:51:23

Right DoughDoe pretty sure I said mass murderers those 1100 cases were not involving mass murderers.

Anyway black people are twice as likely to be killed when unarmed by police than white people in america.

Ethnic minorities make up less than 38% of Americas population but almost 50% of those killed by police are not white. And out the people who are killed when unarmed minorities make up 62%.

debbriana Fri 19-Jun-15 07:42:22

I hope that they do t claim he is mentally ill. It was seems to be the case with people like him. Anyone else would have been called a terrorist or black person that needed to be tamed. Probably he knows that there are people cheering him on.

creighton Fri 19-Jun-15 08:08:54

he has not fought extradition back to south Carolina where they have the death penalty so that he can die as a martyr.

JuanPotatoTwo Fri 19-Jun-15 08:12:12

The children of one of the victims are absolutely awe inspiring. How they can forgive, and so soon, is beyond me.

squoosh Fri 19-Jun-15 14:48:54

There are reports of him saying he 'almost didn't go through with it because everyone was so nice to him'.

No doubt there will be claims by some people saying he's a mentally ill 'lone wolf'. He's not, he's a domestic terrorist. No different to say a Muslim American shooting dead 9 white people in a Vermont congregation.

SenecaFalls Fri 19-Jun-15 14:57:10

I am in the US and close geographically (and emotionally through friends and relatives who live there) to Charleston. The act is being referred to as domestic terrorism, although Fox News predictably had some commentators on yesterday trying to make it out to be anti-Christian, and of course, they (Fox) criticized President Obama for mentioning gun violence in his remarks.

squoosh Fri 19-Jun-15 15:04:28

I can't imagine there could ever be an atrocity big enough that would make Fox News think 'hmmm, maybe something's a bit awry here with our gun laws'. But I'm glad the lonewolf thing is being quashed and I did mentally applaud Obama for once again bringing up gun violence.

I presume they have the death penalty in SC?

JanetSnakehole Fri 19-Jun-15 15:42:36

Yes, SC does have the death penalty, and Gov. Haley is calling for it in this case. I live in Charleston, and work with people who attend that church. One of my colleagues lost a family member. It is being called domestic terrorism, though I cant speak to what Fox News is saying, because I wont watch it.

SenecaFalls Fri 19-Jun-15 15:58:39

I was watching Fox back and forth just to see how they would approach it.

There is this huge irony right now that the US and SC flags are flying at half staff on the dome of the state capitol building and the fucking Confederate flag is flying at full staff in close proximity.

As a Southerner from a state that borders SC that dumped the Confederate flag from its state flag several years ago, if you really deplore these killings as you say you do, SC, bring down that flag.

Janet, deep condolences to your colleague and to all Charlestonians.

Mrsfrumble Fri 19-Jun-15 16:43:24

This Washington Post article gives the stats for exactly how many more gun deaths there are in the US than other wealthy, developed nations (2.97 times as many).

I feel like Jon Stewart nailed it so perfectly on that clip that is doing the rounds on FB at the moment. That all the "soul searching" and debate that will happen in the US media is completely pointless because NOTHING will change. Having a black, non-NRA supporting president for the past 7 years has changed nothing. I can't see it getting any better.

I live in the south, in a state which doesn't fly the confederate flag probably only because it didn't exist until after the civil war. I don't feel scared, but I do feel a sense of hopelessness and utter despair.

kateemo Fri 19-Jun-15 19:11:20

Bringing that confederate flag down would go a long way to restoring our faith in the "more perfect union" that our country was meant to be. I heard despair in the President's voice when he said he'd had to make this speech too many times now. But that's all he can do. Jon Stewart is right. Nothing will change.

CNN is now reporting that the scum wanted to deliberately start a race war. He admitted it to the state prosecutor today. Yet i can hear the spin machine of the deniers whirling up a shit storm to make up another story.

Fed up. Sad.
Feeling helpless. And guilty for feeling happy that I don't live there aymore.

squoosh Fri 19-Jun-15 19:21:39

Interesting link Mrsfrumble the bit that jumped out at me was

'Even measures that have overwhelming support -- like universal background checks, which 92 percent of gun owners support -- tend to die in Congress in the face of stiff opposition from the National Rifle Association and their congressional allies.'

It's outrageous that even with widespread support among gun owners themselves the NRA can pull strings to ensure suggested measure like this don't pass. Absolutely fucking outrageous.

squoosh Fri 19-Jun-15 19:27:02

JanetSnakehole It must be an awful time for everyone in your city, condolences to your colleague and her family.

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