Vicky Pryce is guilty(700 Posts)
edam - 'yellowbrick, do you not think it's wrong that women are criticised for daring to get angry when men shit on them from a great height?'
What a preposterous remark! Where on this thread have I said or suggested that I think it isn't wrong?
I understand her emotions completely. My comment way back was that it was sad that it seemed she had begun to exact a far more healthy revenge - moving forward with her career and being the loved and protected parent while CH was disowned - but allowed herself to be knocked off the rails by her - bitterness/anger/grief, whatever you want to call it.
VP was treated really cruelly by both CH and CT. It's not a crime to leave your marriage but if he had behaved with even a little bit of common decency in the way he left he would probably still be a Minster in the coalition today.
Yes, it might well be a result with which she can live.
I don't see the children getting on well with their father's lover for a good few years.
I wonder if the divorce consent order says who supports the child at university.
VP has had her revenge.
She has just not been able to have her cake and eat it.
I think she should feel content.
Xenia you have chosen the life that you wanted and that suited you. But please don't assume that other people want to make the choices you made. If people are content to be 'housewives' or 'Sahm's' that's up to them. But I agree they should be aware that they may one day be in a vulnerable situation financially.
Xenia, I think I have a crush on you.
Indeed. We need many more Vicky Pryce's and far fewer housewives of MPs who take male adultery on the chin, allow themselves to be wheeled out post the scandal as some supposedly happy family because the woman is economically dependent on the man and thus has to put up with things.
Dadthe, not sure why you ask? That is not my situation. I don't think I've ever been cheated on and I earn a lot because I didn't put a male career first and sacrifice myself on the altar of hearth and home.
Also most adultery is caused by opportunity rather than evil, so if someone works away it is much more likely to happen; another reason not to have a spouse in the forces or away on business or as an MEP a lot, never mind that it means they do not do their full bit at home so leads to imbalanced unhappy sexist marriages.
It's just that in this case, the judge attacked her personality in very strong terms, while not attacking Huhne's personality at all. I'm sure there are plenty of nasty words you could use to describe Huhne if you were so minded - arrogant, selfish, deceitful, ruthless. And so on.
When she comes out, I hope she rises really high. She deserves it. He woke a tiger, and she won't lie down.
How dare Vicky Pryce be uppity and dare to feel angry and bitter, how dare she bring the big man down, he was trying to "save the planet" for us.
She should have just taken it on the chin, been meek amd mild and smiled up at the big man on the podium making speeches to the public.
Vicky was cut from a different cloth as the big man found out.
And the children (including the sons) probably all feel bitter too.
Exactly, Animation. How dare Vicky feel angry, bitter and betrayed. Of course she felt all those things and rightly so, because of how Huhne had acted.
"Reacting by becoming overwhelmed by anger and vengeful feelings certainly not"
FEELING anger and FEELING vengful is a normal and healthy reaction when you've been betrayed, just as much as feeling cheerful is normal when something good happens. Reactioning cheerfully though when you've been betrayed isn't quite so normal and healthy.
BigBoobiedBertha: I'm not saying that Pryce wasn't bitter. I'm sure she was. It's just that in this case, the judge attacked her personality in very strong terms, while not attacking Huhne's personality at all. I'm sure there are plenty of nasty words you could use to describe Huhne if you were so minded - arrogant, selfish, deceitful, ruthless. And so on.
You're not bitter are you Xenia?
The lesson for women is if you have a great career do not tolerate your husband swanning off to work away whilst you are left to work, turn work opportunities down and hold the fort with 5 children. Have a clear agreement neither of you will work away and make sure he does his equal share of domestic stuff as there is a good chance he will go off with a younger woman anyway.
I agree with Dadthelion. Maybe VP was 'bitter' in this case but she shouldn't have done what she did. She deserves to go to prison.
I also disagree it is a term kept only for women. Google 'bitter husband' - you will get plenty of examples. Husbands who have been cheated on or have been left who try to make sure their wives get nothing in a divorce settlement. Nobody quibbles about them being 'bitter' and yet if a woman acts in an even worse manner, people throw their arms up in horror. Really, it does the feminist cause no good to have these double standards.
Stop trying to make excuses for VP's appalling behaviour. Don't forget that we only know what the papers have fed us, including their summary of the court proceedings and she fed them most of it, probably calling herself bitter in the process. I haven't trawled through all the stuff written on this but I wouldn't mind betting at some point she said she felt bitter - how else can she justify her behaviour? She certainly didn't do this because she had a pang of conscience about breaking the law.
Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, a friend of Vicky Pryce, is honest in the following article
'Inevitably, she has been pilloried by many, mostly female, commentators for becoming the living embodiment of the hell hath no fury like a woman scorned cliche. For the sake of the children, it has been argued ad nauseam, she should have suffered in silence, let it all go. Been dignified.
Thats so easy to say until you become the woman abandoned by a spouse to whom you have given every ounce of your youth, love and devotion. I for one can feel Vicky Pryces pain, and understand all too well how she was driven to such a dark and ugly place.'
I'm bot bitter says Gary
There is nothing wrong with being bitter when trust has been betrayed. It is a natural human emotion.
Good luck to Vicky Pryce. I can understand how she must have felt.
Tony Blair today denied reports that a bitter Gordon Brown told him "there is nothing you could ever say to me now that I could ever believe" after he reneged on a deal to stand down last year.
Yes, LineRunner said upthread These judges are telepathic where women are concerned.
It's the way certain destructive emotions and behaviours are reserved for women. Consider the way VP is described - funny how that word "implacable" (typical woman won't listen to reason!) crops up in the judgement.
Contrast it with the way the judge mentions the justification for CH's actions, and his eventual guilty plea requiring "courage" as opposed to having reached the end of the road.
I agree with Xenia - different terminology is applied to the sexes. I've known plenty of men who were bitter because their wives had an affair or left them or wouldn't let them see the children. And, as Xenia said, men do find ways of taking revenge, but it's not always the same kind of revenge as a woman would take.
I thought the judge was way out of line in the way he described Pryce's personality, and made deductions he was in no position to make.
Bitter is what you feel when you are "done to" rather than "doing". Men don't generally need to feel bitter so much because they are much less done to than women on the whole.
I think would it be ok for everyone to act as CH and VP have done?
I can't find anyone agreeing with CHs actions so I'll leave him.
Would it be ok for everyone, who felt betrayed and that is subjective, to ruin their ex's career, try and get them sent to prison, collude with the press and judges, and get their children involved in all this?
No it wouldn't in my opinion.
Whatever words were used, VP had a choice in her actions and chose the wrong option.
This isn't about sexism it's about taking the wrong options, and as she's a middle class, educated, white woman and mother people find this difficult to deal with.
I have virtually never heard men called bitter. It is usually used in a sexist context.
Women are not supposed to get angry yet in reality women and men share a lot more in terms of emotions than people suggest in the press.
Men of course are much more into revenge than women and plenty end up killing their children to spite their wife yet that adjective bitter is rarely applied to them.
I don't think VP thought hard enough about how she might be prosecuted or perhaps she is pleased, who knows? Her husband's career is over and hers is probably not. He has been called to account for his adultery and his lies.
I don't agree the judge said VP lied in court. Martial coercion is hard to make out but that does not mean her husband did not complete the form and say sign here or my career is over.
Anyway it's a lesson to everyone not to get involved with the press.
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