Hilary Mantel makes a good point

(545 Posts)
juneau Tue 19-Feb-13 08:15:37

She shouldn't have said it, since it's bitchy and uncalled for (and I actually find HM rather odd, if I'm honest), but after a good couple of years in the media spotlight I struggle to think of one thing the Duchess of Cambridge thinks or believes in. She never gives an opinion, she barely speaks, she just looks pretty and smiles.

exoticfruits Mon 25-Feb-13 19:25:08

I revised my opinion as soon as I read your post!

Fillyjonk75 Mon 25-Feb-13 18:53:20

Yes. She just let the Daily Mail make massive twats of themselves first. Not hard.

exoticfruits Mon 25-Feb-13 18:49:02

If she hadn't go the headlines then very few people would have read it. It was wonderful publicity for her!

Fillyjonk75 Mon 25-Feb-13 18:37:24

I don't know if she's that bothered, exotic, she took a good few days to clarify matters - basked in the notoriety a bit first smile She's ace.

exoticfruits Sun 24-Feb-13 17:15:30

I read the whole article today and it would be pretty amazing that something could be so taken out of context, if it wasn't such a common occurrence. Hilary Mantel must be annoyed that it destroyed her entire meaning.

slipshodsibyl Sat 23-Feb-13 19:53:43

Energy companies need support from government in order to invest in alternative energy sources as the cost of R and D is huge. It doesn't appear to be forthcoming.

pofacedplot Sat 23-Feb-13 19:11:21

that is just an excuse - they blame a number of things. That doesn't mean global warming does not exist. That means those energy companies are unbearably greedy.

claig Sat 23-Feb-13 18:49:45

'Hm except energy suppliers and big business can all get a lot richer if we're not all trying to be eco warriors.'

Could they get away with increasing the public's energy bills by 10% year on year without so much as a murmur?

claig Sat 23-Feb-13 18:44:26

'So basically Kate in all her carefully contrived spindlyness and designer dresses is the new opium of the masses'

Royalty always has been the opium of the masses, which is why the image and control of photographs etc must be managed so tightly in order not to shatter the illusion and destroy the 'just world fallacy' of the masses.

Hm except energy suppliers and big business can all get a lot richer if we're not all trying to be eco warriors. There's also (unfortunately) rather a lot of evidence for climate change. Unfortunately some people (yes the Daily Mail & probably Jeremy Clarkson) think a cold winter means the ice caps can't possibly be melting. I think it's true that no-one knows what will happen - the systems are too complex to predict accurately, but I think it's unwise to not recognise that we are playing a dangerous game.

Copthall admirably staying on topic - yes like that comment about CallMeDave smile

claig Sat 23-Feb-13 18:33:49

'Erm but people believing in global warming/climate change makes life more difficult for the powers that be. Unless you think windfarm owners have more clout than hugely powerful multinational manufacturing businesses.'

The powers that be do nothing that makes life more difficult for themselves. Never have, never will. From Prince Charles, to oil companies to politicians, nearly everyone bangs the climate change drum. Windfarm subsidies are just the icing on the cake for the rich, they are not what it is all for.

But let's return to Hilary and Kate.

pofacedplot Sat 23-Feb-13 18:27:31

eco business is a conspiracy? conspired by whom? The government doesn't give a monkeys about alternative energies, except nuclear power. Oh Jesus.

Copthallresident Sat 23-Feb-13 18:27:20

So basically Kate in all her carefully contrived spindlyness and designer dresses is the new opium of the masses wink

I liked Hadley Freeman's comment on Dave's attempts to talk about anything but the real issues

"The last lot pissed me off by constantly flapping their mouths about X-Factor contestants and football and what rubbish they watched on TV, but Cameron has really raised this to an art form by releasing heartfelt, serious, official statements about any old bollocks that floats past his brain. Presumably the idea is to drown out the policy announcements. "It is time for FIFA to come down strongly on racism in their ranks. This X-Factor miming scandal attacks our very values as a nation. It is disgusting that Mrs Jones' cat should be deprived of a play to have a shit by the Smith's leylandii. All benefits for the disabled are being cut forever, the lying scum. Hilary Mantel's comments on the Duchess are completely reprehensible"

garlicbreeze Sat 23-Feb-13 18:21:53

Jimjams, it's not about windfarm owners so much as control of energy supplies. Remember Enron?

garlicbreeze Sat 23-Feb-13 18:19:53

I used to laugh uncontrollably at conspiracy theories. Unsurprisingly, I started seeing sense in them at the same time as I acknowledged the abuse pervading my own life. I don't have any definite views on how the global climate is changing, but I'm absolutely sure eco-business is a conspiracy, with its political incentives.

We've come quite a long way from Hilary & Kate!

Erm but people believing in global warming/climate change makes life more difficult for the powers that be. Unless you think windfarm owners have more clout than hugely powerful multinational manufacturing businesses.

I'm quite happy to believe in cover ups. But the evidence for climate change is pretty solid as far as I can see. Of course individual models will be shown to be wrong because no-one actually knows enough about the complex systems governing climate. I suspect it will get colder here if the gulf stream shifts - that doesn't mean predictions were wrong.

pofacedplot Sat 23-Feb-13 16:58:33

well it is a bit like arguing with King Canute, but much more depressing.

claig Sat 23-Feb-13 16:53:39

Don't believe the prophets of doom; there will be no religious apocalypse, no catastrophe. All will be revealed to be untrue, and future generations will look back and ask how did those 21st century humans, those good people will their belief in a 'just world' fall for such politricks.

pofacedplot Sat 23-Feb-13 16:42:55

claig both polar ice caps are melting. Sea levels are rising at unprecedented rates. The big 'reveal' will be in 50 years time when everyone has done nothing and our world is changed irrevocably and it will be too late to reverse what has happened.

claig Sat 23-Feb-13 16:31:50

They changed the term from "global warming" to "climate change" when teh figures revealed that there was no warming. Don't put anything past them; it's not a "just world" unfortunately.

claig Sat 23-Feb-13 16:26:46

pofacedplot, wait and see. It took years to reveal Hillsborough and Savile, but some people knew it all along.

pofacedplot Sat 23-Feb-13 16:18:53

There are of course conspiracies or at least big cover up by people who have vested interests in things. However global warming is not one of them.

claig Sat 23-Feb-13 16:08:28

Today we read about the La Repubblica reports about why the Pope may have resigned. But millions of good people will not want to believe that, they prefer the story that the first resignation of a Pope in office for 600 years was due to ill health.

Otherwise another idol would crash to the ground. But the people at the top know exactly how the world runs and they know it is not a 'just world'. They know that is a fallacy, but they use its power to con the people.

claig Sat 23-Feb-13 15:50:17

And that is why people are so adamant that there are no conspiracies, and why some people find it hard to believe what Oscar Pretorius is accused of. People create heroes and invest them with the qualities that they believe in - be they politicians or film stars of celebrities, and their worldview is shattered when they find out that appearance was not real.

claig Sat 23-Feb-13 15:42:39

I have never heard of the 'Just World Fallacy', but it is fascinating and ties in with what I said about the need for people to have idols and to believe in goodness. People want justice and many feel the attacks on Kate are unjust and that is why there has been this reaction to the way the Daily Mail reported the story.

People know that there is corruption at the top, but they collude in the decption that those at the top are good. They can't believe that they might lie about climate catastrophe etc., which was why Climategate shocked them.

As the sociologist said

'Belief in a just world functions as a sort of "contract" with the world regarding the consequences of behavior. This allows people to plan for the future and engage in effective, goal-driven behavior.

Lerner hypothesized that the belief in a just world is crucially important for people to maintain for their own well-being. However, people are confronted daily with evidence that the world is not just: people suffer without apparent cause. Lerner explained that people use strategies to eliminate threats to their belief in a just world.'

It is similar to the belief in heaven and that a better world exists. If people saw the true reality of the lies and deception that they are subject to, many would despair.

That is why they react when idols are knocked.

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