Mumsnet Talk

Ok it's in the daily mail so usually not reliable but has anyone else read this story. On phone and can't do links. He was 4 when he decided he wanted to be a girl.

I recall ds2 at 3 wanting to be a girl like mummy and wanting his willy chopped off. I never made a fuss or took him to dr as I was pretty sure it was a phase. He was just at age where he was learning about hos body and that there are girls and boys. He wanted to be a girl, hed wear my shoes and nighties. It was a phase and sometimes he puts my heels on. Its normal surely?

For some children (most) it's just a phase. For others it's a genuine issue that gives them a problem. And for some of them, it continues as they get older and needs to be dealt with, for them to be able to either come to terms with their body, or make a choice to change it.

The tricky bit is how to tell which is which at this age - and I think in most cases "not making a fuss" would be the main way to deal with it till you're reasonably sure it's a genuine issue.

Not read the actual article though....

I understand many/most transgendered people have known since they were small that they were in the "wrong" body. But they are a tiny proportion of those who are at that age expressing ideas related to gender.

I would have thought it was far more prudent of a parent to remain attentive to their child as they grow, allowing for every possibly outcome, rather than take it all to a national newspaper.

Actually, for a Daily Mail article it's really quite sane on the issue -[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103686/Boy-5-lives-life-GIRL-youngest-diagnosed-NHS-Gender-Identity-Disorder.html link here]] - but I don't think going to a newspaper, specially with as much detail as they have (full copy of his birth certificate!) is going to be a helpful start to this child's attempts to explore complex questions of gender identity, whatever the outcome.

Pah! link here

How is it in interests of Zach or older brother to plaster over papers? Just don't get why parents went to papers

I agree mama

I have a couple of trans-gendered friends and they realised from a very young age they didn't identify with the sex they were born with.

However I honestly don't know how a four year old can be so verbally articulate to voice his emotions concerning this. Maybe in a couple of years yes but having a four year old myself, for him to articulate correctly the way he is feeling can be difficult at times iykwim. Ds himself has a sex chromosome disorder that could affect his gender identity (as it does some mlaes with this disorder). It is something I will watch out for but at such the young age he is at I don't think I would act on it until he was older. Just my own opinion.

Again don't understand why the parents went to the papers.

I don't know much (or anything really!) about this issue, but I caught an interview on This Morning and I was shocked at how rude the child sounded. It was a small bit at the end where she was brought in, after the mother and an "expert" were talking, but I couldn't help thinking that she (the child) shouldn't be talking like that to an adult and that maybe it's because she's been pandered to too much.

I actually don't think that the story should be published in the paper. The children are to young to give consent and it is not in ther interest, seeming as they are getting medical support. It would be different if they went because they needed help, but that isn't the case.

I have been on courses ran by trans-gender people and they all knew from around 3 years old. Also the process is easier if they are given treatment to stop the on set of puberty, so for that reason it cannot be ignored until they reach adulthood.

Transgender people have tthe highest teenage suicide rate out of the population,so support is needed.

It isn't an easy diagnosis to get and takes years of assessment.

AMumInScotland I agree that the particular article linked on this thread is relatively sane for the Daily Fail, but that is perhaps because they followed it up by allowing this article to be printed by next day.

Somehow, it doesn't cover the issue of GID in such a sensitive way

The parents have gone to the newspapers because they are apparently negotiating a five figure sum for the story.

Sorry but I do tend to agree with a lot of stuff in the second article, they are doing their son no favours making such a big thing of this at such a young age. My sister was a real tomboy when she was young, she was allowed to wear dungarees etc and had her hair cut short, spent all her time kicking a ball about or riding her bike, but she was still a girl and now she is a married woman. What would have happened if our parents had gone round telling everyone she was now a boy I wonder. Would she have felt she had no choice but to be a boy?

Poor Zach should have been left in peace for a bit longer to figure things out for himself, not be 'outed' to the whole school. If he still feels the same when he's older then fair enough, but this all seems to hinge on the fact that he decided he wanted to be Dora the Explorer, one of the more adventurous girl characters (who seems to be aimed at both sexes I think, certainly my ds liked watching it when he was 4 ish), hardly Angelina Ballerina!

I think its ridiculous.

If im understanding right this is not a case of a person having outwardly male genitalia but also having female repoductive organs inside?

This is a boy that wants to be a girl?

Apart from the cases where a person is a hermaphrodite or has for eg male genitalia but also ovaries, it seems like its a psychological issue rather than a medical one.

A boy/man doesnt know what it feels like to be female because they are not female, they may not be happy with them selves but that doesnt mean they are the wrong sex!

Ive always been of the opinion that people that feel this way are just gay but either dont feel they will be accepted as such by others or have an issue with being gay themselves.

re Zach he is far too young for all that, his parents should be ashamed selling their his story to the papers.

might be raising money for future sex change op?
Ah heck, what do I know? But at 5yo DC only had a very weak sense of gender identity. I don't think they saw gender identity as that limiting, in the way that it can indeed be for teens/adults. So seems odd to me that a 5yo should feel that strongly.

Amberleaf - I think you're being pretty ignorant. It doesn't have anything to do with sexual orientation or them being closet gay (after all trans men and women can still be hetero or homosexual, it's not as if someone who transitions to woman only ever dates blokes)

Maybe I am WidowWadman.

I am extremely tolerant of gay men and women, I do not have an issue with anyones sexuality, I just find it hard to accept someone who is physically male saying they 'feel' female.

I dont understand how they can? when they are not?

What does being female feel like? I am female and I know what it feels like to be me the rest of it [femaleness] is more about society and the expectations of people based on gender.

I know I may sound ignorant but I would say that I would defend anyone who as a born male wanted to live as a female, if they faced prejudice I would defend them, but I just struggle with them claiming to feel female when female is a biological thing not a societal gender identity.

I have a friend whose sone has gender dysphoria, they knew when he was at infant school. It wasn't just preferring to play with girly toys and wearing girls clothes, he was very upset to be even considered a boy.
Thankfully hs mum and the school were gentle and kind with him, he is now able to cope with life as an older teenager, but it's been very tough dealing with other peoples narrow views and lack of insight

My nephew was diagnosed a few years later. He is coping after much help by the Tavistock clinic, but life's not fun a times, the bullying he and his brothers get is horrid (they are bullied just fr beng hs brothers!)

I think both these two boys deserve our support, not being told its just a phase, or that the they should be made to play with more male toys etc

Gender issues like this are not the same as being a Tom boy

Ps
They don't know why a boy knows he is in the Wong body or a girl knowing they should be in a boys body, it may be due to levels of hormones in the womb was a theory a while ago

Amber, just because you can't imagine what they feel, doesn't mean it's not real for them

I know Eagle, im sure it is real for them I just dont believe its a physical thing, I think its more psychological, which is of course just as real an issue.

My DD wants to be a boy and it is very real for her. The last time she wore a skirt was just before she turned two. IN the next year she gradually rejected any clothes that she percieved to be girls clothes and by the time she was 3 i gave up buying anything from the girls side of the shop as it was a complete waste of money. So here we are with a DD aged 6 who is determined to be a boy. She does know that she is a girl but hates it. The school is aware, she is seeing a paediatrician for other matters who is aware and the ed psych is aware, so it is a case of sitting it out and seeing if it is a phase or whether she has got GID. When she tells us she is a boy I very gently tell her that she is in fact a girl which she says yes she knows but she also is very clever and tells people what she thinks they want to hear.

Amber she wants a willy, to me that is physical.

A physiological illness makes it seem as if it would be possible, through drugs and talk therapy, to come to an understanding that your body is OK

While this is the case for some, it is no way the case for others. It's a whole body issue, mind, body, spirit

I was a child that wanted to be a boy, refused to wear skirts or girly clothes, was always out on my bike, kicking a ball around or playing soldiers/cowboys etc. alwaystakingboy--roles I wanted to be a naval officer or a footballer. I have been married 25 years, have 3 DC but in many respects I am still a tomboy, stickkicka--ball--around and rarely wear girly clothes even now. I'm happy being a woman though and certainly wouldn't consider myself GID. I wouldn't even consider going down that route with such a young child let alone involve schools, doctors. I think it is rather sad that the parents have involved papers that won't help the child at all.

flippin strikethough

These days they are saying that if a boy likes pink and ballet, he's a girl... as if being a girl was about liking pink and ballet.

The concept is, at the very least, a little insulting towards women and girls, non?

DS1 wanted to be dog aged 4.
I bought him a dog chew but I didn't take him to the vet.