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back has gone again, not holding down meds. Hospital?

(117 Posts)
Pavlovthecat Wed 07-Nov-12 09:27:24

hello. Despite the wonderful post that has led to lots of thread and posts and visits to my blog abou dillytantes amazing memory helping my back issue, I am sad to say that it has 'gone' again.

I need some advice. I am in a lot of pain. It has been threatening to go badly since the weekend, sort of did on sunday then was ok, but at the same time on sunday I started to throw up and have hardly stopped since.

I have not taken my tramadol since tuesday (so add a bit of withdrawal into the mix). I managed to hold down some water last night, so tried some rice cracker this morning, followed by a slow release tramadol and two paracetamol. They came straight back up.

Now, I always said that when it goes again like this I would be up at A&E not the docs as they just send me away again. But, now it has come to it, I am not sure. Added to the fact I am not able to take any pain relief has me thinking I should go. I have a GP appt at 10:40am but can't see what they will do. I am not sure I can even make it as I can't walk. I can have telephone appt but that is 11:30am onwards, could be as late as 2pm. That means if I am not happy, or if they suggest hospital, it coincides with DH getting the children. GP is unlikely to do anything I am sure.

I am ok if I am still. (But, clucking means I am fidgeting wink). I am holding down a little water now.

WWYD? I am thinking if I get into hospital the very least they will do is get some fluid and some medicine in me before kicking me out? But, I have been here before and did not go to hospital, I feel a bit like a fraud.

Pavlovthecat Wed 07-Nov-12 21:03:13

blimey! you get a consultant? shock when I had my MRI, I had an osteo call me up to tell me. admittedly he wanted to tell me they had also found out I had a mutant kidney too (seriously, they found out on the MRI i have one, enormous 'horsehoe' kidney' he was more excited by that and casually slipped into conversation that this was degenerative and I probably would never canoe again. I never got to see the MRI until I saw the spinal team in August, MRI was in May.

I am so so pleased you have the MRI and a consultant appt. I really really hope they can find a solution for you that will actually help this time. About time for you. Please keep me posted. You should come and be a guest blogger on my blog grin

Me...i am in a LOT of pain. i felt a bit better this afternoon and made the decision with dh not to go to hospital. i kinda regretted it this evening. I managed to have a bath, got in ok, soaked for 5 mins sat up, could not lie down but due to sickness and feeling pathetic not had a bath/shower or cleaned my teeth since sunday (probably saturday actually as i was ill sunday before i got dressed, i had mouthwashed after throwing up, and a quick swizz with a toothbrush but not a power on clean) DH bought me some nice bubble bath, after 5 mins, i had a muscle spasm and got stuck. I curled on DDs bed for story (pretend it is not as bad as it is for her type thing) and when i got up, i had to get on the floor and DH had to help me out of DDs room, while i did not cry or scream but actually needed to.

I am ok now, having taken more anti-inflammatories and codiene (stopped the tramadol when i threw up) but only ok if i don't move. at all. apart from my hands typing that is grin

Tomorrow, when DD is at school, if it is like this, there will be no question. I just needed to get myself un-messy from this vomitting first, see if it was not that making me feel worse.

Pavlovthecat Wed 07-Nov-12 21:06:08

and as smee says, if you get your mri and you are not happy with his opinion take it elsewhere. we have to fight for our corner. I never ever knew I would have to know what a neurosurgeon was in order to speak to my gp. I never considered i would need to tell my gp to refer me to one. i assumed he/she would tell me i needed to see one, and what it was. if it were not for the internet, for google and places like MN i would never have known i needed to see one or was entitled to see one, let alone ask for it/demand it. but now i know.

Oh I hate getting stuck in the bath! It happens fairly often. sad I had to crawl off the bed tonight after lying down to feed DS to sleep. That was fun. hmm

I would never have thought to see a neurosurgeon either - the consultant I've been referred to is a rheumatologist. He was so dismissive last time that I think I may have a battle on my hands - after he examined me and I listed all the therapies and drugs I've tried in the past he just sort of shrugged his shoulders and said that he doubted the MRI would lead to anything that I hadn't already done. angry

I hope you have a better night tonight - I'm glad DH is being more supportive now. Look after yourself.

Oh and I shall go and have a nose at your blog again, I haven't been in a while!

Pavlovthecat Wed 07-Nov-12 22:19:34

why have you been referred to a rheumie? is he moonlighting? make sure you see the MRI when you for your consult, not just the report. I made that mistake. Even then it was the GP who showed it to me, ages afterwards, surprised I had not seen it. I did not realise I could see it.

Pavlovthecat Wed 07-Nov-12 22:20:08

so you have not found anything that can help for pain relief? you poor thing, it sucks.

I have no idea why, but tbh I was just grateful to see someone! I will definitely ask to see it - I studied osteology for my MSc so have an idea of what I'm looking at. smile

No, no pain relief, just lots of gritted teeth and sucked in breaths! I don't know what I could take though - DS is still BFing a lot (he's only 10mo) and as he's intolerant to both dairy and soya I'd rather not have to wean him yet. We'll see what the consultant suggests though (assuming he suggests anything).

Pavlovthecat Thu 08-Nov-12 15:42:22

jeez you really are hardcore puddle i so hope they can do something for you. I really do.

Not hardcore, just stubborn! Unfortunately mine has flared up today. It's been threatening for a few days but a brief walk around the local wetlands with the kids seems to have done for me. sad

How are you today Pavlov, any progress?

Pavlovthecat Thu 08-Nov-12 17:51:53

puddle I am joining you in stubborn. I have stopped taking tramadol shock I am sure I will be regretting this decision in a few days, if not before. but I have had it with meds. I am not completely cold turkey, although I stopped nerve blocker last week. I am taking codeine, which is not so difficult to reduce from as it is opioid not opioid AND serotonin fuckup. It was not entirely intentional in that I threw up for so long I was forced into not taking any, and I dread the prospect of having to do those first 3 days again of any withdrawal, this time I had sickness to somewhat mask the pain of withdrawal. If I do it again I won't. Either way. I am not doing it any more.

Can you read the signs of your back 'going' too then? I can tell for a couple of days that it going to 'go' badly. Like this week. Me and you both eh? how long is it going to lay you up for this new lapse? I am moving about now, but sciatic pain has hit me with full force (thanks to not taking the nerve blocker any more).

I just meant that it's been getting gradually worse over the last few days instead of maintaining its usual level of pain. Nothing like your sickness warnings. Have you mentioned that to anyone yet btw?

Pavlovthecat Thu 08-Nov-12 20:08:16

No one is interested in my far fetched ideas! I vaguely mentioned chemical pain to a physio who told me there was no such thing and to be careful what i read on the Internet...it was her boss who told me about it! (Well I already knew but most people don't seem to believe it is anything very real). I get the gradual increase too. As well as the sickness this week which might or might not be coincidental, I had first signs on Sunday, it was it going, I knew it was regardless of the vomiting.

Hope you find some respite from it this evening and get an ok nights sleep.

How frustrating! How are you today?

LostInWales Fri 09-Nov-12 13:18:51

<waves as a fellow back pain martyr> I know it's a bit continental but can you get your pain meds prescribed as suppositories for next time this happens. In France the seem to put all their medicine up their bums, better for your stomach and (hopefully wink) can't be vomited out. Sneezing is one of my worst fears so if it's a side effect of not being able to take Tramadol that's a double bastard.

LostInWales Fri 09-Nov-12 13:25:12

<waves at puddle > I'm a non medicating person too, I do find I'm less likely to end up with big pain problems as I'm always listening to the signals I get from my back as they are not masked at all. Mind you if I could I think I'd just swim about in a bucket of Iburofen/coedine but after 20 years of abuse my stomach lining bleeds if I get too close to NSAIDs! Tramadol is great but far too much fun, I stopped after the best 24 hours of my life where I basically grinned and hugged people and said 'brilliant' a lot. Happy day but I could see that it might be a bit of a problem on a permanent basis.

Pavlovthecat Fri 09-Nov-12 19:30:24

lostinwales <waves> I should have asked for suppositories. Might have helped in another way too. God I wish tramadol did that to me! It mostly keeps me awake longer than I would like, slows my digestion and makes me talk FAR mor than I normally do. Which is a lot.

Right now my best friend is cleaning the kitchen after dinner, spotless so dh does not have to do snything when he gets home from work and has tidied my house to perfection. Including the war zone of dds bedroom. dd had the decency to be humble on her return from school and apologised for the mess it was in. My ds won't stop jumping on me as I lay on the sofa. I did too much today trying to 'get on with it' and spasms are back full force and ds cuddles in a unique way when he is tired, involves a lot of wriggling and jumping.

puddle felt more human today than I have all week,had a bath that I didn't get stuck in, walked around sainsburys with a crutch slowly, meant I got to spend too much money on thing I don't need. Then I got dd from school so I could talk to her teacher about how this is affecting her. Now I am on the sofa, screwed, with a good friend to look after me and having given in to the tramadol. I can't give it up, not while I am in so much psin. Stupid stupid idea. . How are you?

LostInWales that sounds fab! Unfortunately I'm really sensitive to opiates so tramadol makes me alternately projectile vomit and pass out, neither of which are helpful when you're in excruciating pain from every movement. confused I live in terror of sneezes too, they're so bloody painful!

Pavlov I'm actually better than I expected today, I'm upright and walking without crutches (although very slowly). This evening is proving difficult though as DS has decided that despite only having 2 half hour naps he doesn't want to sleep tonight. I've been trying to settle him since half past five... hmm He gets hysterical if DH tries, although he happily goes to him when I need a break from the feeding/rocking/cwtching etc.

Your friend sounds fab! How are the DCs handling things?

LostInWales Fri 09-Nov-12 21:35:26

YY to the talking more effect of Tramadol, I basically put out a stream of consciousness on a theme of the Harry Enfield character who says 'brilliant' a lot. I stopped taking it after making all my children stop what they were doing so they could listen to a continuity announcer on TV as 'I love this voice, doesn't he have a lovely voice boys? Listen, listen, this is my favourite voice on tv' I turned round to a trio of hmm faces and realised I couldn't do that full time. I'm saving it for my old age (I plan on taking all the meds I can't now because they make me too hazy whilst using my DLA to employ an attractive young man to pour me a gin at 4pm and do the gardening with his top off, I'm quite looking forward to it actually)

What's the chemical pain thing? I can always tell when I'm going to get a bug because everything is just so much more painful about 3 days before. No one seems interested in this theory either. (Seen Rheumatologist, Orthpaedic specialist and all round back person so far).

I had an MRI last week, thoracic and lumbar vertebra, so I'm looking forward (ish!) to getting the results. I have degenerative bones though so most drs get bored of me because there are no surgical ways to help.

How do you all cope with crutches? I had them in the summer a bit but I'm never really sure how to do it and then the middle of my back hurts and I feel all self conscious.

Pavlovthecat Fri 09-Nov-12 22:31:50

lostinwales i will find you a link about chemical pain, can explain it so much more than me. but the theory is that the pain from the source, the chemicals it emits can cause pain as well as the local source, so for example disc pain, the assumption is nerve pain/sciatic pain is caused by the disc pinching on the nerve, but in relation to chemical pain it is also caused by the chemicals/toxins also causing the muscles and nerve to become inflamed. in relation to my experiences, I always vomit a few hours before my back 'goes' badly. Always. And my theory is to do with the disc leaking gunk and chemicals that cause my body to dislike it, throw up, followed by the inflammatory pain causing spasms and sciatic pain. I mean, it may well be that the nerve is now in fact trapped, which I think it is as I have numbness and pins/needles almost constantly down one leg, but my theory still sticks, based on common sense and things I have read. Blah. See. Tramadol speak grin

re crutches - if you use two, you are meant to use them like walking, so not two at a time, but instead of swinging your arms - left leg right arm, right leg left arm. Physio said that this way reduces the stress on the rest of your back and does not mess up your natural gait as much. I only use one most of the time though, as I can't use two and have a two year old with me, I use it opposite the leg that I get the most horrendous nerve pain in, it takes the wait off it, and gets me upright. I only use them sparingly and the physio said she would take them off me after a month, HA! I didn't return to give them back grin. Or, I stuff DS in a pushchair and use that like a zimmerframe wink

puddle I am glad you are feeling better, but grrr that your ds has decided not to play ball. It is so frustrating when all you want/need to do is lie down or do little and they demand you and no-one else. Glad you are able to ditch the crutches though.

My friend is awesome. I rewarded her with dinner (she cooked did most of it) and wine (she drank most of it). I rely on my friends very rarely. But, she comes over on a friday often anyway, and while I was out getting DD from school she just blitzed the place for me. She said she will come in once a week or more if needed for the time being to help keep on top of things.

Children coping? DS does not really understand. Well he does, he knows I have a poorly back and if he kisses it, it makes it better. DD, she is lost. She is upset, a bit scared I think and very sad mummy is hurting still. She does not understand why she can't fix it. She so desperately wants to. She is very empathic and seems to have a sense of responsibility for making it all ok and I think she is a bit confused why cuddles, love and fussing is not enough. She rushes to my side and helps me walk if I get a spasm, and gets upset that DH takes over even though she can't support my weight. She gets me cushions, brushes my hair, asks me constantly how I am feeling, can she help. She has left for school in tears most mornings this week due even though try to hide it from her. Which is why I spoke to her teacher. just so she has somewhere else to turn if she is worried or sad at school. My heart continually breaks for her. I have cried in front of her more times that I ever should have and feel very guilty for her having to be so involved in my condition.

Yes, I try to only use one crutch as well, I feel slightly caged when I have two. hmm And it's hard to manage the DCs as well.

Poor DD, it must be hard for her to adjust to. My DD is only 3 and although she's always known that Mummy has a sore back she doesn't understand why I can't just have medicine or a plaster to make it better. sad When it's really bad I have to restrict myself to cwtching her in bed or on the sofa and reading stories or watching tv, sometimes doing craft. The trouble is she's much happier running around and I just can't join in. sad

It must be hard for your DD as she's older and more aware. Is there something quiet that she especially likes doing - drawing, sticking, reading etc - that you could do together while you're fairly immobile? What's she into?

LostInWales Sat 10-Nov-12 15:30:54

Using crutches like swinging arms! Of course that makes loads of sense, because I work in our small local hospital I just got given them. I would have to say you get a heap more sympathy with them don't you, people don't really believe in back pain unless they have it themselves but the minute you have crutches you have something physical they can understand. grin

You still both have such little children too, that must be hard. My lower spine has only recently started to impact on day to day stuff and my youngest is 5. I can't hold other peoples babies because my thoracic spine is my worst area but at least I have been relatively good on my feet. Children by nature are still so selfish though aren't they, the amount of stuff they drop on the floor which I hurt to pick up. DS3 does come and stroke my back and say 'where do you have pain today mummy' which is sweet and heartbreaking equally. I feel bad for my eldest as he is ASD and very close to me and sometimes when I can't stop the tears flowing I can see how upset it makes him. Hopefully all our children will have a bit more empathy as the grow older though.

Hope everyone is having a 'good' pain day. I am sitting down all afternoon after taking the boys to cycling club this morning, later I am going to a birthday party (no children, yay) and I have a pair of Clarke's comfy range wedges heels to wear, I will pay for that tomorrow but for one night I am going to make an effort!

Catper33 Sun 11-Nov-12 02:00:48

When I had my significant back problems a few months ago, my GP, Physio and Orthapaedic Consulatant all talked about chemical irritation of the nerve contributing to/causing sciatic pain and localised back pain. It was part of the conversation, certainly not a radical far fetched idea more a matter of course that this would be occurring. They said they wouldn't do anything about it as it was usually a symptom of a disc issue, however, if following an MRI no nerve impingment could be seen they would then introduce treatments directed at nerve irritation reduction. Following my lumbar fusion I was also told to expect sciatic symptoms for a while due to swelling and chemical irritation around the nerve roots so this is obviously is a very real problem. May be this different view is as we are not in the UK.

I hope everyone who is suffering has some relief soon as it is so horribly debilitating.

That's interesting Cat, they're obviously a bit more progressive where you are! I hope your fusion worked?

Lost how was your party? I hope you're not suffering too badly today!

Pavlov how are you today?

My back seems even worse this morning - I say seems because I haven't managed to get upright yet, I'm still curled foetal-style in bed. confused I had a lovely bath with the kids yesterday and didn't even get stuck, but my back got progressively worse during the evening and a night co-sleeping with a wriggly baby hasn't helped!

PavlovtheCat Sun 11-Nov-12 09:10:16

I feel fucking awful. Sorry for swearing and not responding more. Feel to rough to type sad

Oh love. sad Maybe it's time to reconsider that A&E visit? Gentle hugs winging your way.

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