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Fasting / 5:2 diet

5:2 Thread number 49: Have you gained & lost the same 20 lb so often that your cellulite has déjà vu ? Or want to dump several stone of ballast (not just STBX) ? Whatever your goals, join us !

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2015 22:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of Intermittent Fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8
Smile
The 5:2 diet was introduced on BBC Horizon on August 2012:
Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means somewhere around the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight ( see TDEE calculator below).

For most folk, 5:2 results in a weekly 3000 calorie deficit, so averages 1 lb loss. However, some folk may lose much more quickly / slowly or in fits & starts.
Initial weight loss may be much quicker.

If you have a lot of weight to lose, you may lose much more quickly than someone in the healthy BMI range who just wants to trim a few lb.

Acronyms & Calculators:

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight normally needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men) or 1000 cals for BF
If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful website or app to track food & drink caloriesi

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day. TDEE is calculated from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this over the week's NFDs.

To speed up your weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight,
but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that to maintain our new healthy weight longterm requires a permanent change in how we eat.

How to Start
. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator above as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful MN Threads
Browse previous threads in the fasting section

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s thread collects practical tips and info we have gained over all the 5:2 threads. It is especially useful for newbies.

Inspirational: eatriskier’s Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.
Read to boost your motivation.
Add your own when you have lost weight too Wink

Recipes: frenchfancy has collected delicious FD recipes from all the threads.
Post your own here too.

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has a Thread for advice & support on combining 5:2 with a healthy exercise regime.
The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Maintaining: talkinpeace has a Thread for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining.
Some of those sharing experiences have been maintaining for 2 years, which shows 5:2 is sustainable longterm.

Other Links
BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This health blog Interview with a leading scientist gives some of the scientific explanation for why fasting helps you to lose weight AND maybe improve your health too.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese people (men & women), wrt health amd weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was fat, not muscle or water, which is unusually good for a diet.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

More for hard-core science geeks: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across [[http://www.paleoforwomen.com/
shattering-the-myth-of-fasting-for-women-a-review-of-female-specific-responses-to-fasting-in-the-literature/ this article]] which is very negative about fasting for women with normal BMI.

Here’s our response:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since less fat and inches are available to lose.


  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.


  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the

much tougher ADF or 16:8, combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) like LeanGains
AND
were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^
-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

These Pictures illustrate that many different body shapes & types that are healthy, so there is no single "right" shape.

FAQs / Tips:

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, just count any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice.

Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine.
Many prefer to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar and junk food. A few treats per week are good though!

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, have EDs, fever, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)


Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile
OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2015 22:25

Welcome everybody
Smile
Let's start this thread with a big drink of water

5:2 Thread number 49: Have you gained & lost the same 20 lb so often that your cellulite has déjà vu ? Or want to dump several stone of ballast (not just STBX) ? Whatever your goals, join us !
OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2015 22:27

You don't have to exercise to lose weight, but < coaxes Wink > why not pop over to the
52ExerciseThread2 for ideas & support.

5:2 Thread number 49: Have you gained & lost the same 20 lb so often that your cellulite has déjà vu ? Or want to dump several stone of ballast (not just STBX) ? Whatever your goals, join us !
OP posts:
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Bimblepops · 19/01/2015 22:28

Oooh, a new thread! Thank you, BigChoc!

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Trills · 19/01/2015 22:30

Helllooooooo

Today is my 3rd fast day. I am a newbie.

My top tip: keep busy!

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Trills · 19/01/2015 22:31

I was very hungry between 4:30 and 5:30 today, but I was in a meeting that I couldn't get out of, so I couldn't eat anything. After I got out I made a cup of tea. (drinking large volumes of tea is my alternative to drinking water)

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DramaAlpaca · 19/01/2015 22:38

Hello again Smile

I was on here a couple of threads ago & doing really well with 5:2, but took a break due to being so busy at work that I needed to eat normal calories every day just to keep up with the physical demands of my job.

Things have quietened down now so I'm going to give 5:2 another go. I'm also doing Dry January, which despite a wobble or two I feel is doing me a lot of good.

Here goes!

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BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2015 22:53

Welcome back, Drama

< waves to bimble >

Well done, Trills Hot drinks seem more filling than cold on FDs. Do count any milk or sugar cals
I enjoy Bovril, or herbal tea with Stevia, or naturally sweet Rooibos tea

OP posts:
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MegGriffin · 19/01/2015 23:19

Hello. Checking in after completing my 3rd fast today and my first weigh in and was pleased to lose 3 1/2 lb, so a good start. I need to hop back now and read the posts I missed on the old thread.

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BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2015 23:37

Well done on your SV, meg

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dwarfrabbit · 20/01/2015 01:16

Hi everyone. hope we're all staying warm and cosy ( I am drinking tea in bed and hiding from the kitchen ) So happy that I didn't mess up my FD today. My daughter wanted to celebrate the end of a big school project with dinner at the pub and the menu had baked chicken legs and salad ( 500 cals result!) husband tried to nick some so I stabbed his thieving hand with my fork. I know you people will get it.

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BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2015 06:12

You defended your FD brilliantly, Dwarf
May the Fork be with you, Wink

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potbellyroast · 20/01/2015 08:31

Hello everyone. All the best to the fasters today.

Lost another 3lb so that's 11lb in total and I am so happy!!! Put some work trousers on last night that I haven't worn in a couple of years. They fit (snugly Grin) so I'm hoping if I can lose another 3lb before I start my new job in 2 weeks they might look ok.

New job will bring new challenges (lunch provided on some days) so I'm hoping you'll all be here willing me on.

bigchoc my goal is to check out your exercise - thread baby steps and all that. Might then actually build myself up to do some exercise!

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PUGaLUGS · 20/01/2015 08:38

Hi, can I join in please?

Have been doing 5:2 for about 18 months now. At the beginning I also used MFP too but have lost my way a little bit with that and I know on my NFD I end up eating way too many snacks.

Am small. 5ft. Every pound shows. Am currently 8st 3. I do go to the gym (haven't bern for a week now though as I have pulled something in my neck and I was full of cold too last week).

Today is a fast day and I am so not in the mood for it...

Hi Trills, tis Bella.

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DramaAlpaca · 20/01/2015 09:22

First FD in a long time for me. Wish me luck!

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Bimblepops · 20/01/2015 09:34

Good luck with today's FD, Drama, good to have you back.

And welcome to the thread, PUG, good luck with today's FD.

NFD for me today, started with some Lazy Day Foods Belgian Chocolate Tiffin, which wasn't quite what I'd planned! My excuse is that I had a dreadful nights sleep last night thanks to my lovely DS2, am in a serious grump this morning and knew that the Tiffin would help!

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PUGaLUGS · 20/01/2015 09:41

Mmmm tiffin sounds lovely! Envy. I need my sleep to Bimble.

Am just having a strong coffee from my machine with a dash of skimmed milk and then I will take the dog out for a walk before work.

Lunch on FD for me is always a pot of 0% Total yoghurt with a small handful of raspberries stirred in. Tea is always either Hairy Dieters stroganoff or poached salmon salad. Tis salmon tonight. For DH and the boys there will be baby potatoes and onion rings too.

Good luck Drama.

Well done Pot, 3lb is fab.

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PUGaLUGS · 20/01/2015 09:41

*too

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GoldfishSpy · 20/01/2015 09:42

Hello all, lovely shiny new thread :)

It's a NFD here today and I have a question. Is it OK to eat what I want today? It really helps me to keep the Fast Days if I know I am free from restraint on NFD. It's only Week 1 for me, so I am hoping that my appetite will be moderated over time. But this morning I had 4 slices of toast for breakfast. I won't mainline cake or anything, but it seems too good to be true.

Though to be fair, if I was not on the 5:2 (I'm doing 4:3 though), I would be having that for breakfast every day more often. So I guess it must be better.

Still at 3lb lost since Friday. But I feel lighter. And have more energy. Win! Grin

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DramaAlpaca · 20/01/2015 10:13

Thank you Bimble & PUG. Will report back. Hungry already Sad, but fending it off with lots of cups of tea. Lunchtime can't come soon enough.

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BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2015 11:59

Welcome pug
Smile
Congrats on your SV, potbelly 11 lb is excellent in this short time
Carry on like that and you'll have the trousers-falling-down NSV (hopefully not at work Wink )
Goldfish 4 pieces of toast, absolutely fine - so long as you didn't use a whole jar of pnut butter / jam. If you have more protein with your toast, next time, you'll stay fuller.

On 4:3, you have a little more leeway on NFDs and can eat over TDEE. Just try to eat healthily most of the time, which should avoid the risk of eating 3,000 cals.
Check your weight loss after say another 2 weeks. If it is too slow, then rein back on the NFDs.

OP posts:
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GoldfishSpy · 20/01/2015 12:22

Brill Ok thanks Choc. Just considering lunch - thinking of having the remains of yesterday's veg stew - surprising for me as usually I am a cheese and crackers gal. Hmmmm. Hoping it is the start of something :)

Keep on keeping on Drama :)

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TalkinPeace · 20/01/2015 13:16

Blimey another new thread - my 46th Grin

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Dotty342kids · 20/01/2015 13:52

Ah, here you all are Smile

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dwarfrabbit · 20/01/2015 14:11

potbelly you are going to have to name change to flatbelly- you're doing so well! well done everyone for keeping strong ( and giving me inspiration!)

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LadyintheRadiator · 20/01/2015 14:13

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