TTIP - The trade deal between the EU and the US, Should we heed the concerns?

(49 Posts)
SpringingIntoAction Mon 02-May-16 16:28:02

The TransAtlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is a trade deal that the EU is making with the US.

It's explained here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30493297

It will affect us in the UK as we are EU members.

Here's some ways in which it may affect us:

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

Many people throughout Europe have been protesting against TTIP for several years now

www.reuters.com/article/us-trade-protests-germany-idUSKBN0N90LO20150418

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36120560

Many groups in this country are concerned about TTIp. Greenpeace is worried about some of its potential affects

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36185746

Lord Owen who has spent his political career promoting the EU has said that we should leave the EU to avoid the damage that he feels will be caused to it by TTIP

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/06/brexit-is-necessary-to-protect-nhs-from-ttip-says-david-owen

The Nobel prize-winning economist Stilglitz shares Lord Owen's concerns and also thinks we may be better off leaving the EU to avoid TTIP

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eu-referendum-joseph-stiglitz-ttip-labour-transatlantic-trade-investment-partnership-a6907806.html

So far, the Government has not exempted the NHS from TTIP.

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/13/unite-says-government-is-reluctant-to-exempt-nhs-from-ttip

The Government is running out of time to exempt TTIP as Obama wants the deal sealed before his presidency end at the end of the year.

Cameron may yet decide to exempt the NHS from the TTIP closer to the EU referendum as a sweetener to get people to vote to remain in the EU. If he does so we will have to consider whether this is a promise he will actually keep if we vote to stay in, or whether he'll do what he did after the Scottish referendums - make promises than change his mind.

The only safe way to avoid TTIP is to LEAVE the EU.

Outside the EU, and no longer an EU member we escape TTIP.

And once we have left the EU to avoid TTIP there' no danger of Cameron negotiating another UK/US version of TTIP in the few years he has left running the Government as, according to Obama we in the UK will be at the back of the queue for any deal trade deals with the US.

So, I think the safest thing to do is to Leave the EU, escape TTIP and save our public services and NHS.

AnnaForbes Tue 03-May-16 00:10:12

Marking place, the world, (or everyone in the EU at least) needs to be aware of TTIP. It is a terrible deal for us. Leaked docs today spell out just how bad it is. I'll post more tomorrow.

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/01/leaked-ttip-documents-cast-doubt-on-eu-us-trade-deal

PortiaCastis Tue 03-May-16 00:14:17

A very good reason to get out

A4Document Tue 03-May-16 08:30:02

I agree. I'd like the UK to leave the EU and avoid TTIP.

TheMaidWasInTheGarden Tue 03-May-16 08:32:54

Thanks for the links.

PausingFlatly Tue 03-May-16 08:45:56

Link to thread Springing started about TTIP, on which it was explained why leaving the EU may make us more vulnerable to a bad trade deal, not less:

AIBU to ask if Lord Owen is right about TTIP?

Top of the list being that Cameron doesn't seem interested in exempting the NHS from TTIP, even though the EU would be happy to do so.

So it's not the EU which is the driver for NHS privatisation. It's the British government which legislated to privatise the NHS in 2012 and is now contracting it out slice by slice to "any willing provider".

PausingFlatly Tue 03-May-16 08:48:36

Another thread with useful links: To ask if you've all heard about TTIP?

BritBrit Tue 03-May-16 08:55:13

the TTIP is very worrying, Greenpeace leaked 248 pages of the text the EU have tried to keep secret & it allows the NHS to be sued & privatised by private companies in specialist courts. The TTIP also allows the EU & US (not the UK) to meet once a year to discuss state owned enterprises e.g. the NHS

Greenpeace leak- www.ttip-leaks.org/
Express on the leak by Greenpeace- www.express.co.uk/news/uk/666454/NHS-EU-killed-off-Brexit-Remain-Leave-referendum-Brussels-European-Union

PausingFlatly Tue 03-May-16 09:09:56

The most worrying part of TTIP (for me) was the proposed Investor-State-Dispute-Settlement agreement, which is what I think BritBrit is referring to.

This proposal was suspended in 2015: TTIP: Activists triumph as contentious US free trade deal clause suspended

This does not mean the UK will never form an ISDS with the US, whether in or out of the EU.

In fact Cameron was a fan of the proposals which would have included the controversial ISDS: G20 summit: Cameron promises to fire 'rocket boosters' under controversial EU-US TTIP trade deal.

PausingFlatly Tue 03-May-16 09:28:12

(Not getting at Cameron particularly; he's hardly unusual in the Tories re enthusiasm for big business. NuLab ditto.)

Whisky2014 Tue 03-May-16 14:06:45

I'm out because of this.

Pausing This does not mean the UK will never form an ISDS with the US, whether in or out of the EU.
Obviously...but we have more say and power as to what our terms are if we are on our own. We have the option to say "NO" and it mean something.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Tue 03-May-16 15:44:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpringingIntoAction Wed 04-May-16 02:05:03

On the contrary - the US is a much more powerful country than we are, and in most cases just imposes its conditions on the other party. The only reason TTIP hasn't been ratified yet is because the EU is strong enough to stand up to it, and make sure that the odious parts are removed. The UK wouldn't have that choice (indeed, Cameron and Boris have already stated that they would gladly have signed it as it was)

You cant have it both ways. You can't keep telling us the Uk is small and weal and insignificant and then tell us that the US will be rushing to negotiate a UK/US with little insignificant us.

Obama told us - we're at the back of the queue for trade deals with the US.

Obama told us we would not get a sniff at a trade deal with the US for at least 10 years.

Cameron won't be in office by the time the US is ready to negotiate a trade deal with us similar to TTIP.

Cameron won't even be in office after 24 June if we vote Leave - according to Michael Hesseltine.

Notice too how the REMAIN argument has swung from 'Cameron will give you just as bad a deal as TTIP' to the new 'argument' of 'the NHS is already privatised'.

Ignore them.

Vote LEAVE - escape TTIP - save the NHS.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Wed 04-May-16 13:27:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpringingIntoAction Wed 04-May-16 14:21:23

They won't be rushing, they'll merely fax us their terms and conditions and expect us to sign them and return..

Not while we continue to be the largest foreign direct investor in the US.

We're not weak. We don't sign on the doted line - well, only while we are told to do so by the EU.

Winterbiscuit Wed 04-May-16 15:48:39

We're not weak. We don't sign on the doted line - well, only while we are told to do so by the EU.

Yes. A good deal of the EU myth seems to be based on the false premise that Britain couldn't possibly look after itself. And yet the EU would like our money, our army, our sovereignty etc.

We don't need the EU.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Wed 04-May-16 16:05:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Winterbiscuit Wed 04-May-16 16:12:58

If it takes "up to 10 years" as Obama suggests, I doubt it will be Cameron or Boris who's making that decision.

SpringingIntoAction Wed 04-May-16 21:33:03

If it takes 100 years thats fine by me.

We've managed without one for the last 40 years.

We can carry on without one when we Brexit.

SpringingIntoAction Wed 04-May-16 22:34:25

Cameron says he's forging on with TTIP

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/04/david-cameron-political-courage-ttip-trade-deal

TTIP will allow big US corporations to sue Governments if they feel legislation is damaging their business - guess who pays the compensation to Big Corpa? Yes, you and me, the tax payers.

TTIP is a deal between the EU and the US.

If Britain leaves the EU then it cannot be a party to this TTIP agreement.

The only way to avoid TTIP is to leave the EU.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Thu 05-May-16 09:13:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Whisky2014 Thu 05-May-16 10:15:21

Why will it be worse MyHover?

I don't know why you think we have to go along with the usa? We don't NEED them, do we?

Whisky2014 Thu 05-May-16 10:16:29

Also not really listening to Obama's 10 year back of the queue crap since he won't even be in office he can't say anything as fact.

Christ alive I can't see Trump being crappy to us since he is making money from his businesses here in Scotland...

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Thu 05-May-16 10:23:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels Thu 05-May-16 10:24:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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