No Shit Sherlock : Supportive parents do more than good schools to boost children's exam results

(319 Posts)
TalkinPeace2 Sun 14-Oct-12 22:22:49
Sonnet Tue 16-Oct-12 15:26:18

Brycie - Elitist really?!! I was looking for the wink in your 15.04 post then I realised you are serious!

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 15:26:49

Yes sure see my last post! I can explain more if you want!

Hullygully Tue 16-Oct-12 15:27:42

Brycie, it doesn't matter what schools do if Child A goes home to a broadsheet-reading, Radio 4 listening, gallery and concert etc-attending parent who talks and discusses all the live long not in school day, knows professional people and networks, and Child B goes home to a parent who...doesn't do that stuff.

Schools can't equalise that, it's not about listeneing to children read.

Hullygully Tue 16-Oct-12 15:29:14

Schools can try to have as much input as possible, but it's societal structure you need to be dismantling.

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 15:29:25

It doesn't matter in holistic terms - it matters in terms of learning to read. Am I the only one who thinks that's important? More important than listening to radio 4 and attending concerts?

Sonnet Tue 16-Oct-12 15:29:37

Brycie - how do you feel about inherited intellegence?

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 15:30:04

Schools are the first step to changing society and increasing social mobility. Unless you leave half the teaching to the parents.

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 15:31:26

How do I feel about it? I know nothing about it, except a vague assumption that there's probably something in it. I suppose I would have a very strong feeling that children ought not to be written off because of their parents not being very bright but maybe I'm alone in that too? I can't believe that though.

Hullygully Tue 16-Oct-12 15:32:26

If only, Brycie

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 15:33:57

Er ..but by insisting on parents' involvement that colludes in writing them off. Would you also like to see a lot less work sent home, like me? I'm confused.

cornykrueger Tue 16-Oct-12 15:35:39

This is why ofsted awards are so crap.

Sonnet Tue 16-Oct-12 15:35:47

Agree that schools are the first step to changing society and increasing social mobility. BUT even if school work does not get sent home the differences will still exits - see HUllygullys post of 15.27.

As far as inherited intellegence goes -IME two doctors will have a "clever" child regardless of what the school input is.

noblegiraffe Tue 16-Oct-12 15:36:05

Brycie, you're in a dream world if you think that stopping schools sending work home would stop kids of academic and supportive parents getting ahead.

Look at the massive market for revision guides, phonics books, kumon maths tuition etc etc.

At least if the school sends work home there's a chance that some of the more disadvantaged kids might do something educational when they come home from school.

TalkinPeace2 Tue 16-Oct-12 15:38:01

Brycie
If you have a vague assumption that there's probably something in it about inherited intelligence, BOY OH BOY do you have some reading up to do.
And as it starts in the womb with the proteins available to the foetus, WTF do you expect schools to "undo" about that.

Social mobility is increased by giving equal opportunities to all.

So the US system where all kids go to the same school in their area is MUCH better than the religious and academic selection systems we have in the UK.

Sonnet Tue 16-Oct-12 15:38:37

Even if school work is not sent home there will still be parents who do additonal work with their DC - how can oyu stop that?

I will be doing additonal English Comprehension work with one of my DC over her 2 week half term as she needs support in English and we are too busy during term time - should I not do that Brycie ?

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 15:40:11

There's no chance, giraffe, and I don't live in a dream world. Why a dream world? Isn't it better to give children as much solid schooling as possible when you know they'll have nothing at home? How is that dreaming? Kumon and all that is irrelevant - that's fine, that's extra, not a problem. All curricular stuff - none of it shoudl depend on parents input. I don't know WHY this is controversial especially among those who want a more equal society. That's why there'll still be a difference - always - but the difference can be minimised and it OUght TO BE minimised.

It's not enough to think, never mind if they never do it at home, they'll be serving my kids burgers one day. It's not enough.

Hullygully Tue 16-Oct-12 15:40:16

Also, schools don't actually send much work home. My kids have been to state, private and grammar and never got/get much work sent home.

What would be more use would be to catch the kids who haven't had a chance at age 5 and put them in a school within a school with intensive input to catch them up and then continue to nurture and monitot them, but that's never going to happen because no one gives a shit about the poor and the factory fodder.

Hullygully Tue 16-Oct-12 15:41:44

So if the external stuff doesn't matter, Brycie, what is your point?

Is it that schools aren't doing their job? Because that's about resources.

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 15:43:15

I don't have any reading up to do - am not really interested unless you're suggesting writing children off. Is that what you're suggesting? Let me know.

I don't think I was terribly clear.

Kumon etc is extra. That's fine, not a problem. That's why there'll always be a difference.

All curricular stuff - none should depend on parents' input. That reinforces social inequality.

So - there'll always be a difference - schools need to minimise it. (that's what I said in my first or second post - minimise it and NOT exacerbate it)

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 15:45:16

My children have had reading, loads of reading sent home, spelling worksheets, and times tables, loads of maths/arithmetic that I've had to explain. Hurrah if that's changed and nothing gets sent home any more. In which case TalkinPeace could have told me that half an hour ago!

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 15:46:19

Not resources HullyGully it depends on choices and the curriculum. There was quite a lot of money spent on schools under Labour and it did nothing for social mobility.

choccyp1g Tue 16-Oct-12 15:46:27

I've often thought that homework clubs would be a good start at helping the less advantaged children to bridge the gap. This applies especially at primary school, where it is almost impossible for a child to do a project involving library books, craft activity, use of the computer etc. unless the parent is involved.

At DS' primary school the teachers always claimed that all the children have a computer at home, simpy because the parents are happy to receive letters by email, but that it not the same thing as having space to work, and plenty of ink and paper in the computer, and time to use the computer in a large family etc. etc.

As for reading with DCs at home, I think some school should use parent helpers in a more targetted way; I've helped for 4 years now, and only one of the teachers made a point of sending me the pupils who weren't getting read with at home, most of the others chose to be "fair", and give everyone a turn.

Sonnet Tue 16-Oct-12 15:46:54

I made a mum friend when one of my DC;s was in reception. We are still friends now. This Mum never ever heard her child read, did phonic cards that were sent home, did spellings etc. By the end of year 2 her DC was below the standard of the rest of the class. She is still below standard in English even now in Year 7. She is a bright child but IMO was not supported when she vitally needed it.
I have always believed that parental support is more important than the school.

Hullygully Tue 16-Oct-12 15:47:02

Why is kumon fine but not reading?

This isn't logical.

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 15:47:35

I'm beginning to agree that no one gives a shit about poor and factory fodder though. It's all, who cares if they don't read with their kids, I read with mine and it gives us a big old leg up and the rest can whistle.

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