There is a mountain of research of people's experiences of breastfeeding, of the failure of HCPs to help with it, of the lack of training. All the professional organisations and the people within them who deal with training acknowledge there is a massive gap.

Sending a thread from mumsnet anywhere will only echo what is already known - fine to do it, but it is not proper research, which as I say has been done many times.

We have NICE guidelines on supporting and enabling bf. Clearly, for whatever reason, they are not in place or they are being ignored. Hospitals have high-minded breastfeeding policies and strategies, but varied success in putting these into practice.

This is known, too ie that policies and stategies are not always followed.

So the BMJ blog did link to this thread.

Maybe we need a thread about people's experiences, good and bad, of midwives helping them start breastfeeding, which Mumsnet could bring to the attention of the Nursing and Midwifery Council. And similarly for HVs with whatever their professional organisation is.

That is very sad, Grendelsmum.

It is one of the reasons why i think it is important to get involved in ways to improve bfeeding support for women, especially if you have tried and failed. If my dd's have children and want to b'feed, i hope I will be able to be honest about any problems that may arise, without being 'horror story' about it, whilst encouraging them and providing practical support, if I can.

I grew up with my mum regaling my 'horrific birth story' at every oppurtunity, how many stitches she had, how she has suffered with back pain ever since, how it was all because I was a huuuge baby (11lbs!)I was terrified before i went into labour.At the same time I had friends who were very honest (and practical) about their births, and they made me feel more prepared than scared.

It is a fine balance I know, but I think it is important to treat women as adults and talk in a sensible fashion about 'what ifs' when it comes to birth and b'feeding, they are huge things for your body to go through, so I think it is important to have knowledge of what could happen, and why not to panic if you do have any of the problems that can arise.

(sorry for another long and rambly post!)

I think better, and non-judgemental support is important, but that this is such an emotive and far-reaching issue that it will be difficult to change people's feelings quickly. Being honest about expereinces of breast-feeding as many women find it to be, is not necessarily going to convince others to try it.

My mum tried to breast feed me, and found that it wasn't working (yes, probably a different sort of help and support were needed, but she kept going for about 3 months) - it was one of the most distressing experiences of her life, and when she thinks of my early years, that's what she thinks about, and what she talks about. I've grown up with stories of how terrible it was, how all the medical professionals looked down on her for failing me, how she failed to look after me, how she failed to know what was wrong, the pain I was in, the pain she was in, how desperate my dad was, etc. Because of that, I associate breast feeding with pain, failure, desperation, stigma, etc (and of course, I associate my arrival in her life with all those feelings - "I ruined my parents lives").

I suspect that there are people across the country who think of breastfeeding and associate it not only with shame, which is the obvious problem, but with pain, guilt and failure.

I would love to see paid breastfeeding counsellors - but who would pay them? The NHS is stretched enough as it is (though over time if breastfeeding rates increased, overall they would save money - it will take a while to implement though.) And it doesn't seem fair to expect individuals to pay. The breastfeeding charities/organisations only have limited resources as well.

The same with the Health Visitors just visiting. I didn't realise just how stretched they were until I phoned up one day to see if I could change what time my HV was coming to weigh my baby and was told she didn't have a spare 5 minutes to rearrange, all week. However I think there is a service - homestart? - in some sure start areas which offers some home help.

In my experience I found bf was easy when I had help at home but once I was on my own and had toddler DS to look after I hated it and it got in the way. Real 'pressure' needs to be put on dads to make them realise they need to help out if their partner wants to bf. My exP didn't do enough and it made bf so difficult .
HV's and midwifes just visiting aren't much good. Can't they help out for 20 mins and at least allow the mum to get a shower? Idealistic I know, but I found it impossible to juggle everything and it all went wrong until i switched to ff.

Just as an illustration that bfing is seen as an ideal that some silly women just insist on carrying on with in spite of putting their babies' health at risk...

have a look at this

Now of course we don't want babes getting seriously ill, but it's the tone of the last sentence that I find rather depressing. Although the emphasis on more support is encouraging.

The NHS has to deliver mass healthcare. In our area peer supporters are available - sporadically as always, as they're volunteers - on the maternity ward and to take referrals from HVs and MWs. And do you know how many referrals we've had in the last 18 months? 2. It's easier and quicker for extremely over-stretched HPs to suggest formula top ups etc than to provide additional support.

That surely has to be addressed before anything else can happen. Lawd knows how...

Plus follow ups every few years I suppose...when I'm in charge of the NHS

Good question BoffinMum, even a cut down version of the course would be well worth it surely? About £2000 at the most?

Then why don't they train HVs as bf counsellors?