Really need some advice re. Care workers at my son's preschool regularly telling me 'he is not normal'.....

[sebsmummy1]

but offering no guidance or suggestions as to what they want me to do about it!

He is 28 months, does two half day sessions a week, has speech delay and is in the system. First available session with a therapist is early June.

From my point of view he is my son and if he has any SEN issues that's absolutely fine, we will go where ever the professionals advise, no problems.

However one of the care givers at the Preschool keeps pulling me aside to tell me his reactions to things are strange. She said today that she had never seen it before and it concerns her. When I asked what she wanted me to do with the information, re. how she suggested I reacted to it, she said she just thought I should know

The behaviour they are primarily concerned about is his obsessiveness with three areas in the room. Apparently he does a triangle from the computer, to the cupboards, to the outside play area. It sounds as though he does this constantly. They have tried to take him aside to do one-to-one stuff with him and today another child who is also two. It's play stuff to do with animal noises. His reaction was meant to be one of surprise, I think he was partially surprised with the moo noise, but when it came to the pig he got hold of the thing and threw it across the room. Apparent no child had ever done this before and it concerned her.

They have said I can come in to witness his behaviour and I said I am happy to. Still not sure what this will serve to do though as I certainly don't think they are lying. It's more that they are not actually suggesting or advising anything, just telling me he 'is not normal' and looking at me. Perhaps I should just say thank you!

The only thing I can think is they are trying to convince me he has an impending diagnosis coming up and they think I'm in denial or something so want to push the point home.

[base9]

OP they sound a bit clueless! Brilliant that you are seeing a professional to discuss your concerns. Appointments can take forever and I sympathise.

Go along by all means and let the nursery tell you all their impressions of his behaviour. You will be asked page after page of questions by ed psychs and speech therapists and OTs, so having insight into his behaviour at school will help you to answer accurately.

Are there other nurseries around that might suit your ds better? He may or may not have a SEN but they sound flummoxed by his behaviour and don't seem to know how best to meet his needs. Are they waiting for you to tell them?? My ds's school used to do that to us- call us in to talk about his behaviour and then just stare at us blankly, waiting for us to 'fix' the problem. We found another school that had a clue and ds is flying there.

[sebsmummy1]

Thank you [base]. That's exactly what's happening here. They are telling me his behaviour isn't right and then looking at me blankly. I thought they were the ones with the qualifications and numbers/leaflets/info to hand and so would make suggestions to me. Not expect me to tell them what is wrong with him! From my point of view he is brilliant, funny, sweet, hilarious, energetic, warm, I'm his Mother, of course I'm going to think he is perfect!

This preschool is linked to the primary he will be attending, so yes I could move him but ideally id rather he stayed there.

I have had a thought though. He attends the afternoon session and is always tired before he goes and exhausted afterwards. I'm going to suggest we change him to mornings and see if he is anymore attentive to their 'play sessions'.

[NotSpartacus]

Can you maybe also get them to keep a written log of his behaviour? Then they can give you that, instead of verbally reporting every little thing, and you can pass it to the specialist when you get there. Might make collection time a little easier.

[BaronessBomburst]

If she's never seen a child pick something up and throw it across a room before, she must be new to the game.

[sebsmummy1]

Spartacus I did think that. I know they are writing stuff down in a spreadsheet type thing as I was asked to look at it last week and agree/add to the list. They have three columns where they can date each time they saw the behaviour.

So far with regard to specialists he has seen a speech lady at the drop in centre who was unconcerned with what she saw and said he presented as pretty standard to her. But then the preschool ladies feel he isn't presenting normally compared to the children they see.

I guess I feel he is being pigeon holed at just two years of age and it's sad.

[base9]

Are there different staff in the mornings? Try the mornings.

[GlitzAndGigglesx]

I wouldn't call a child throwing a toy 'concerning' . Maybe ask for him to have more time with staff rather than them sitting and watching him be bored

[sebsmummy1]

Glitz I wouldn't either but then I'm just a layman here, they are the qualified people so I don't want to ignore their concerns.

I have a feeling the staff are the same throughout the day. I would be interested to see if his behaviour is better in the morning though! They need to look at their staff Rita's apparently so I'll see what they say next week.

[sebsmummy1]

*staff rota

[Kleinzeit]

It sounds as if they might be “flagging things up”. Nursery staff are the experts in recognising what’s usual and spotting behaviour that isn’t usual, but if something is unusual they are not the experts in telling you what it is or what to do about it. If they have access to a special needs advisor (or perhaps a psychologist ) you might ask them to invite the special needs advisor in to do an observation. And they might be preparing to suggest it themselves when you come in to observe.

It also depends a bit if it's just this one care worker or if other staff are concerned as well. If your DS has a "key worker" it would be worth speaking to him or her.

[sebsmummy1]

Klein that sounds exactly what they are doing. Thank you. Could you give me an example of what I might say the next time they speak to me about my DS? If they said to me 'we think he should be assessed' I would agree with them and invite it. Should I be the one suggesting it?

[Quitelikely]

I think you're being a tad harsh on the nursery nurses! They can only alert you to his behaviour, they are recording it for you............

What you need to do is contact your HV or GP to discuss their concerns.

[Quitelikely]

It's possible they are being too tactful with you, after all it's not an easy thing to tell a parent

[redcaryellowcar]

I think you sound understandably irritated with nursery who are just presenting problems not solutions, as pp said they don't seem to know what to do other than pass on observations, if I were you I'd book to see your hv as they can help either tell you it's normal, refer to child development centre or suggest you go to gp. I wonder if channelling key worker and asking her to write these observations down may focus her a bit better and make it feel a bit less like gossip to you?

[IHeartRosPoldark]

Sebsmummy,

I am deputy manager of a Pre-school, if I was your son's practitioner, I would be looking to build a positive partnership with you in order to best assist your son's learning experience. Children regularly throw stuff, so I wouldn't sweat on that much, I would have a couple of observation sessions, get a picture for yourself. Ask the setting what procedures they have in place, how they intend to support and meet your son's individual needs until he is assessed. Have they explored what he enjoys doing at home with you?

I sincerely hope they are not using the phrase "not normal", all children approach nursery age with different needs, the skill of the practitioner is called upon to support both yourself and the child to the best their ability.
You need less commentary, more professionalism in my opinion. Hope you get something sorted.

[Kleinzeit]

They probably wont say “we think he should be assessed” at this stage, they are more likely either to offer an professional observation or to suggest that you speak to your GP or health visitor yourself. So you can go along with that, or ask about those possibilities yourself.

Have you discussed the speech delay with them, and told them where you are “in the system”? Services are not always joined up, NHS and education don’t talk to each other as much as they should. It may be that you and the nursery are happy to wait until your DS had some sessions with the speech therapist and see what effect that has.

[sebsmummy1]

Thank you. Really appreciate the help from everyone.

The care provider said his behaviour was 'not normal'. The reaction to the game was described as 'something she has never seen before'.

He has just had his HV assessment for his age group and they were happy with him. They knew he was in the system for speech and we have booked for her (HV) to ring me three months from my appointment to see if there had been progress with his speaking and if anything further needed to be done. I am happy to ring them again and say that his preschool has flagged up issues they are concerned with, like I said I want to do everything I can, it's just a case of knowing where to go to get the help.

[sebsmummy1]

*IHeart' yes they have asked about things he enjoys and I have to them. Next week I will ask about morning sessions but also ask if they want me to stay to observe. Thing is I'm not disputing anything they are saying. I've seen with my own eyes that he goes from the computer to the cupboards to outside as I stayed for a while at his first session. I also know he tends to throw stuff if he doesn't want to participate in the activity or feels pressured to perform.

[sebsmummy1]

*have told them

[Nellagain]

He's 2 yrs and 4 months?
So throwing things at that age can be within normal I would say. Speech delay can lead to frustration with communication and perhaps he feels insecure a little because of this.
Are they used to 2yo? Or is this a new set up? It wouldn't be right for 3 yo?
Have you noticed any odd behaviour at home? 2 is a little young for an sen diagnosis. Normally people have to fight like mad for them!

[sebsmummy1]

Nella it's really hard to tell you what odd behaviour would look like to me as I am with him every day and so what he does seems normal. I could say yes or no to behaviour if there was a list anyone wants to give me, but I am not personally worried about anything he does at home.

They are geared for two upwards although primarily the children are three and four.

[Nellagain]

one of mine had speech delay, his anxiety came out in not liking social situations. The only sen he has is dyslexia. Although I do remember people looking askance and I imagined they were wondering about asd. He hasn't.
Some kids with asd show the signs at a young age, others don't present until they are school age - and trust me that in itself is a battle the parents are usually screaming for a diagnosis by then and the signs very much manifest at home as well as school.

My concern would be are they expecting too much from him? He is only just 2. and are they comparing hkm to 3 yo? If he was 3 I would agree there maybe grounds for concern.
If it's any consolation mine were train and Thomas mad at that age. All they were interested in was building train sets and train games. If we went to any playgroup or playdate they went straight for the trains. picnic in the wrong context and you could.make something out of that.
If the staff cannot articulate to you what is wrong then I would take it with a pinch of salt and just remind them he is 2 and the hv didn't have concerns.
also remind them he is seeing the speech therapiSt soon. Salts do a battery of tests and often pick up if there is more to it than speech delay. (Although keep a high alert for dyslexia later on. Speech delay is one of the signs)

[odyssey2001]

Does the nursery have a SENCO you can ask to get involved?

[sebsmummy1]

I have no idea re. SENCO, ideally id like to have the opportunity to have a proper talk with them, it seems to be snatched conversations here and there at the moment, primarily during pick up.

[DeeWe]

The thing is you see the other side on here when people are angry at nursery nurses/teachers for saying "I think your child has X" because they shouldn't be diagnosing. That's probably what they are trying to avoid.

Sometimes something isn't right about how they do something, but it can be different to express to someone who didn't see it-like trying to explain something funny that happened, you can be laughing so hard you're crying, but the people listening can't see what is funny at all.
I'd guess it was something more than just he threw the pig.

I would say that they're trying to flag up to you that they have concerns. These concerns may come to nothing, they may be a sign of something much bigger than they think.
I'd go for the apporach of asking them to keep a note of behaviours that concern them for, say a fortnight, and book a GP appointment at the end of that.
It may be that you and the GP sit looking at each other going "this sounds totally normal" or it may be that the GP looks at the list and says "hmm, we'll refer to half a dozen places"

When you have a child they may do some things differently, but often it's only when you have all the things they do differently it may build into a bigger picture. For example my dd2 points not with her index finger, but her second finger, which can be a sign of something I was once told. But she doesn't have the other signs, so it's not a concern. If she had other signs then it might be enough to tip the balance between being refered on and not referred on.
And as you say, their little querks are just that-normal to you, so it can be hard to pick them up as something for concern. My ds had a sweet little habit of tapping my cheek to turn my face to him when he wanted to talk to me. I thought it was a way of getting attention (being dc#3) and rather cute. Only when ENT saw him they pointed out that he was actually turning my head so he could lip read because he couldn't hear.
For me it was just something he did, which amused me, and I hadn't even thought of it indicating an issue, and it wouldn't have occurred to me to mention it on a list of concerns.