Mumsnet Talk

I love xmas and all things xmassy so am quite possibly over-reacting to this. go on - I can take it - aibu to want to ignore db and go ahead and buy his kids presents even though we've been 'forbidden' from doing so?

brother lost job a while back and v skint. now he's announced he doesn't want to do pressies this year - not just for adults but also for the kids (we've both got 2, primary school). I suggested a budget of a few quid each but no - he just wants to cancel the whole thing cos they can't afford it. in fact, we've been banned from buying their kids anything I think anyone can afford a quid each for something from poundshop or even make something themselves and am getting in a right flap - mortally offended and upset for my kids (but will prob buy them something and wrap it up as if from them) and for his kids (I don't even know if he's going to tell them why they're not getting anything from us)

we had rellies who used to do this to us when we were kids and I was gutted. in fact I am gutted. so come give me some perspective. am so tempted to just ignore and turn up on the day with a few cheap but cheerful gifts for them.. db will go mental if I do - aibu??

does anyone else do this? is it normal? reasonable? aibu or is he a right miserable scrooge??

I can understand why you would want to buy your nephews a gift. I would want to. Is there any way round it - taking them out for a treat somewhere? Some homemade sweets or cakes from your children? etc.

I am not sure why you are offended and gutted for your children though. Why do you need to buy a gift for them and pretend it is from your brother? I assume they will get other people including yourselves, so I doubt they will be upset to be missing one gift. And if primary age they can understand having no money, etc.

YABU, have you offered to help them out in anyway. I love christmas and feel it is a lovely time of the year, but when you are skint, as he obviously is, you calling him scrooge is very insensitive.
I understand you may wish to give their DC a gift, but to feel bad because your DC will not get a gift is plain selfish, and really not in the spirit of xmas at all.

How about inviting them for a small xmas party, with you providing all the food and drink with a little lucky dip of inexpensive gifts(not xmas presents, just part of the party)

YABU.
I think you have to honour his wishes...and it might do your own children not to expect gifts.

missed out "own children good"

YABU. Kids are either old enough to understand or too young to know the difference. Buy something for your nephews if you want, but don't teach your kids that they 'deserve' presents regardless of someone's financial circumstances. They shouldn't be brought up to expect things. Very bad manners.

lol I do so love mn for giving me a kick up the arse . I am genuinely gutted for my kids (putting on my amateur psychologist hat here . . .) realise I must have some 'unresolved issues' about feeling unloved. kids won't actually notice at all and we can explain to them about db not having money and I know they'll be fine about it but I know I used to feel we didn't get anything from some family members cos they didn't give a toss (true enough). so do you all think it's better to be upfront with our lot rather than pretending? what about his kids though? poor things - sounds like they're not going to be getting anything at all this year from anyone apart from him and sil - we're all banned from giving anything.

would love to do party at ours/homemade presents but db is refusing to do anything at all. he's obv v stressed out.

Your brother sounds very stressed by Xmas and clearly does not want gifts from you to his kids as he cannot recipricate. Finincial worry is appaling and this time of year just meakes it a thousand times worse. I would really respect his feelings on this and I can't believe your kids would really notice. Some years I got presents from various aunts and uncles, other years I didn't. It was no big deal. They will only think it is a big deal if you present it like that.

ah yes, bikinibottom, you might have something there. can't say my mum kept too quiet about the lack of presents and deeper meaning part of things. so is it quite normal then for people not to buy presents for their wider family and children in particular? I've never met anyone else apart from our disfunctional family who did this but if normal people think it's ok as well, maybe it really is.
am so for his kids though. wish wish wish we were allowed to do something. db is so proud, which I can understand, but just so . maybe trip out to cinema for all the kids would be allowed?? any other ideas?

I have respect for your brother that he has been "up front" about this and also given you some notice. It sounds like you are making it a bit about you (sorry if that sounds harsh) when your own dcs won't even notice.

Take a step back. If you really want to do "something" I would perhaps take a homemade cake or similar round, but a week or two before or after Christmas so it is "separate" from Christmas/presents.

Sorry if my post sounded harsh op - it is quite normal not to buy for rest of family at Christmas- well it is in ours!
Birthdays much more special. Trip to cinema sounds good.

p.s. my brother is in a similar situation to yours I think. Has just been made redundant and he and sil have a new baby plus older ds. I have already been "up front" with sil (who I love) and basically made it easy for them if they only want to exchange very token pressies for the children, or whatever they feel they want to do (or can afford).

To me it is more important that they don't feel embarrassed of distressed over Christmas than that my dcs have had presents.

Sorry but YABU, you should respect your brother's wishes - as you've said your kids will understand, and I'm sure theirs will too - I'm always amazed at how little kids need in terms of material possessions.

Our family which is another where we don't do wider present giving either so it's absolutely normal Hope you feel better about it soon - there's so much more to Christmas - maybe instead you could invite them all over for a lovely meal and play games and stuff.

Hi I don't think his kids need presents or expensive days out but they may need just a bit of fun if there is a lot of stress about. What abouthaving his faily over for a games night with their cousins. Just a laugh is the best thing and your brother's pride won't be hurt. I was brought up in a family that had no money but it was the strain and upset that caused me problems not the lack of material possessions. That is one reason why it is important to do as he asks to prevent any aggravation and upset.

ladies, i heart you all (so un-mn)

maybe the kids can come over for a sleepover during the hols and we can do something fun then? ok then, can forget the pressies thing but do something special that is definitely not xmassy afterwards instead. bikinibottom, really take on board your point about aggro being worse than the material stuff. no offense taken at all deadei, that's why i wanted an 'aibu' perspective on it all

I wouldn't say anything to your children, will they really notice? I know mine wouldn't... unless I made a big deal out of it. Better to underpplay it imho.

Be there for them in other ways, it doesn't have to be about material things.

We have the same situation with one side of the family - one family are having problems due to the recession and I was quite happy to do only token presents or none at all - MIL has decided that no presents at all will be exchanged, I.e. Parents will only get presents for their own children.

I was a bit taken aback to hear that the GPs were taking the opportunity to opt out as well (they are not the ones in difficulty) but we won't see them over Christmas anyway. My side of the family will exchange presents as normal. I just hope my kids don't ask any awkward questions when we see the in-laws soon (they normally give the dcs their presents a few weeks before Christmas.

I should have said that my dcs are not all greedy when it comes to presents - they are very modest in their requests to FC for example but it has become a bit of a tradition for MIL to take them out shopping and buy the something a few weeks before Christmas

Can I go a little against the grain here?

I think YABU about your own children - its a good chance for them to learn a bit about the value of money and that not everyone has it on a plate. I think even my 3 year old ds would understand if we said his uncle had lost his job and had no money to buy presents but that it didn't mean he didn't love them just as much. I think you would be wrong to buy a present to them on his behalf.

However while I understand why your brother wouldn't want you to buy presents for his children as it will probably make him feel bad I think imho that this is wrong (as long as you don't mind giving a gift that isn't reciprocated). I think he is right to be upfront that he cannot afford to buy your children presents this year and therefore understands if you don't buy his children anything either. However I think he is wrong to deprive his children of a present from you if you are happy in this situation.

If I was you I would chat to your db and say that while you completely understand about him not being in a position to buy any presents this year you are upset not to be able to buy gifts for his children and are concerned that they may see this as you not caring. Tell him you understand his pride in this but that you feel that it would be a shame if his pride meant his children missed out. Say you won't buy anything extravagent that might upstage what he is able to afford for his own children (ask for suggestions if you like) but that you would like to buy them a present.

If this was me, and circumstances allowed, I would knock up a little box of stuff - bottle of wine, choccies, selection boxes or something. Nothing ostentatious. And give it to db with a stern look and a message that this is what xmas is about....looking after your own, not competitive shopping...

Another option I have just thought of - what are your plans at Christmas? Could you offer to host so that they don't have any expense associated with this (assuming of course that they would have - if not this plan falls flat) and so they can then afford to buy small token pressies for your children in order that his pride isn't dented for you to reciprocate? If his pride gets in the way of the offer for you to host (rather than having other plans I mean) tell him he is being silly and that it is what any loving family would do for when one of them is having a tough time - to pile in and help (assuming that you can pull this off as being lightnearted and wanting to help rather than having a dig at him)

I'd also like to add that I don't think presents are the be all and end all but that I think it is a shame for children to miss out because of their parents pride really. And unless they are teenagers or older it is hard to imagine that a child wouldn't be upset even if they understand that presents aren't a measure of love

crossposted with portofino - yes this is what I was trying to say really but you managed it much more succinctly than me in my waffled 3 posts!

that's how i was feeling about it, alicet. we're not bothered about buying but not receiving but I hate to think of his kids thinking we don't care. at first I wanted to get them something really great to make up for it all but pretty quickly realised that would massively upstage db so suggested the cheap and cheerful instead. but db is adamant - we are, no exaggeration, 'forbidden' from buying gifts for them. I do feel awful for his kids - I'd hate it so much if they thought we didn't care. but I really appreciated bikinibottoms perspective that the stress from persuading him/or just turning up would be worse for his kids. now we have to hope he's going to make sure his kids know we still care about them. (really think this is channelling a lot of childhood issues for me and db here)

we've offered and offered - first xmas here then new year. db seems determined to put pride first. tbh he is probably v depressed and a bit irrational because of it which isn't helping (so i am trying not to add my own neuroses to the mix - hence posting on mn before speaking to him again in case i put my foot in it again)