To think the new blanket ban on co-sleeping (new NICE guidelines warning of dangers of co-sleeping with under 1's announced today) may be going too far?

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Of course NICE have a duty to inform parents of research that can inform their parenting choices, particularly advising about any risk factors relating to SIDS.

But in proposing that all parents should be advised of dangers of co-sleeping during the first year have they perhaps got the balance wrong? Co-sleeping can (I believe from everything I've read) be relatively safe provided other risk factors, such as smoking and drinking or other drugs are not a factor too, and if steps are taken to avoid over-heating (duvets should be avoided?)

The adviser mentions that co-sleeping may make BFing easier, or be culturally preferred, but have they taken these things sufficiently into account in the way the advice has been put forward, and also the way it is being reported on the News (I watched the ITV news at lunch-time and found the advice given was rather strongly worded in my view)

I enjoyed co-sleeping with my dd and ds, and it worked well for us, also facilitating extended (or natural term) BFing. Being close to my babies was very important to them and me, and part of a whole approach to parenting which I feel has given them a very secure base from which to go out confidently and independently to explore the wider world.

Would be interested to know how others feel about this?

Would also say .... A couple of generations back we did have a cot death in the family - my granny's eldest dd. So I've always been particularly aware of how devastating it is and would of course do anything reasonable to minimise the risks, both for my own DC and for others.

May I have a link to these new guidelines... I haven't heard yet

Also a co-sleeping advocate here.

"That parents be advised of the dangers" is quite different from a blanket ban.

But I agree that it is unhelpful. Saying that you must never bring baby into bed is more likely to lead to accidental co-sleeping which is unacceptably risky.

Why the change? Previous guidelines were along the lines of "We don't recommend it, but if you plan to then you should take the following precautions..." Have there been co-sleeping SIDS deaths in ideal co-sleeping conditions since those guidelines came in? I'd expect them to be widely reported.

asomething that has concerned me, if i can't use my duvet for fear of overheating the baby, how am i meant to sleep without freezing my upper body?

Love the hypocrisy on here.

Guidelines re weaning and breast feeding which are nowhere near as dangerous MN likes to preach and scaremonger over but co- sleeping nah lets just ignore recommendations,we don't like them.

I think new parents have enough to worry about without new 'guidelines' popping up left, right and centre.

Following instincts and doing what's natural should be encouraged.

Every other species (except spiders) sleep with their young.

Research is published. It's not set in stone. Take it it leave it.

Guidelines change I can tell you that in 24 years of being a parent.

Do what's right for you and your baby but don't be a slave to either all the latest research or worse the latest trends in parenting.

AP might suit some babies and definatly not others. Be baby led not fad led.

well many species don't sleep with their young, many don't even recognise them, some eat them if they meet them, so that is rather an incorrect and sweeping statement.

I agree with Retropear.

The guidelines about co-sleeping were pretty similar when I had DS1 19.5yrs ago.

Happy oh I did that,then I got preached to on MN re endangering my baby by ffing.

Interesting how some research can get linked to and quoted ad nauseam whilst other research gets tossed to one side.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cosleeping-with-your-baby-can-increase-the-risk-of-sudden-infant-death-syndrome-9580122.html

Meh I co slept with both of mine DC, DD slept better in her cot from around 4 weeks. DS took 5 years for him to stay in his own bed.

I'm with the eloquent Retropear.

I mix-fed DD and ff DS, weaned both 'early' and didn't co-sleep and my DC are fine. Judge away!!

Its all about individual needs of babies and parents and the guideline are just that.

How would they even police a 'blanket ban'? Poor choice of phrase maybe.

The draft guidelines aren't a blanket ban at all. They state in the recommendations that healthcare professionals should acknowledge that co-sleeping occurs.

I was ready to be annoyed after reading the news reports but yet again even the reliable papers are misleading.

It just talks about informing parents of the 'association' (avoiding use of term 'risk') between sleeping with an infant on sofa/ chair/ bed and SIDS. Even the massive co-sleeping fans (as I am) can't have a problem with parents learning about the 'association' with sofa sleeping.

It also talks about informing parents about associations with smoking, alcohol, drugs.

The draft guidelines don't talk about sidecar type cribs which is a shame - as the NCT are pointing out in their response. Hopefully with the consultation that can change.

But the current draft guidelines really are not that scary for co-sleeping supporters. It's just about informing parents.

We co slept for the first few weeks, I was warm enough but dh slept in a fleece jacket as the duvet was obv not kept high upon the bed. Dd had a baby blanket. It worked well for us.

How would you police a ban on co sleeping. Social services are not going to come round and take your baby into care just because you are co sleeping. It maybe inadvisable to co sleep, but its not illegal.

I feel its important that parents are aware of the risks of different parenting decisions. Choosing to co sleep is rather like choosing to use formula milk. It might not be optimal for baby's health or safety, but its still the parents' choice.

"
The draft guidelines don't talk about sidecar type cribs which is a shame - as the NCT are pointing out in their response. Hopefully with the consultation that can change."

A side care crib isn't strictly co sleeping as the baby has his own area to sleep.

I've read the new guidelines.

They are stuck in a hard place. There just isn't research on bed sharing (as opposed to any/all co sleeping) - they have tried very hard to acknowledge this but in the end they have to be evidence based and this is the evidence they have.

I will keep it as a guideline and intend to co sleep with any and all future children.

BTW it has been standard guidance to keep pillows and duvets away from babies - I had DS in October and I used to wear flannel PJs and sometimes a dressing gown on my top half as well, with a cotton cellular blanket over his body and my stomach and the duvet held down by my legs.

I think that, like lots of advice, it will make people aware of the risks, but ultimately they will make their own decisions.
I'd compare it to advice to sleep babies on their front, to remain in the bedroom with parents for six months, to breast feed.

I found it odd that it kept lumping in sleeping on the sofa/chair with your baby (ie, you were exhausted/drunk and fell asleep) with sleeping in the bed with you baby (ie. it was bed time, and you all went to sleep as normal)

If they've mixed up the stats like this, then how can they really say anything about how most of us co-sleep - planned, sober, no quilts etc. so the baby can't smother?

I have no problem warning people that falling asleep, drunk on the settee with your baby is a bad idea, but lumping that in with normal co-sleeping is disingenuous

sarcymare I bed shared with DD. We made the decision after accidentally falling asleep with her in our bed. Anyway, I wore a dressing gown or thick jumper in bed and kept the duvet at waist height (well tucked in so it couldn't creep up). That kept me warm through November-January, at which point she went in a co sleeper cot.

Another odd thing about the stats- IIRC if baby had been cosleeping but was moved after falling asleep (or I guess if the parent got up) it still counted as a co sleeping death. Even though they weren't co sleeping at the time of death.

Guidelines are fine and I think there needs to be more advice on safe co-sleeping. Also acknowledgement of the difference.

i used a dressing gown, a cardi to keep warm and dp slept elsewhere - its not rocket science to the woman who asked!

I personally feel like co-sleeping is a lovely and natural thing to do, I'll co-sleep with both my toddler and my newborn when dc2 is born ( safely, the toddler will on dp's side of the bed so toddler and baby won't ever sleep next to each other).

I live in a country where co-sleeping is the norm, the majority of parents co-sleep and the sids rate is half the sids rate in the UK. The vast majority of babies are breastfed in this country which I know lowers the risk of sids.

In Sweden it is expected that you will co-sleep, we weregiven a double bed and soft co-sleeping nest at the hospital, they actually advised we slept with ds on our chests having skin to skin for the first few nights. Ds was hospitalized with bronchiolitis at 5 weeks old, he was having breathing difficulties and I wouldn't sleep I just stayed awake and held him, a lovely nurse came and talked to me and said the safest place for him was for me to sleep with him cuddled up to me and I would wake if there was something wrong. The midwife on our pre-birth encouraged us to have sex when the baby was asleep in the same bed. I was never given any safe sleeping advice regarding co-sleeping. The literature we were given at the hospital after ds's birth said the best place for baby was in bed with the mother.

It is such a difficult decision to make as a parent but personally I feel my babies are safer in bed with me rather than me getting up and down to breastfeed all night and consequently being exhausted and likely to fall asleep on the sofa or with my duvet/pillows in the bed.

Co-sleeping increases the risk of cot death so of course NICE are going to recommend against it. Parents need to have this information so they can make informed choices.

And I doubt very much that where a baby sleeps has any bearing on their confidence in the wider world

What has actually changed this time then? It sounds the same as it was 10 years ago when my first DC was born. We never intended to co-sleep but did end up doing it sometimes out of desperation, always had the duvet pushed down and a separate blanket over baby. I slept worse with them in the bed though because of the fear of rolling onto them or a pillow getting near them.

Now they are 10 and 8 they sleep with me once every few months when DH is away and we love it, but wouldn't want it to be a regular thing.

Co-sleeping by definition can NOT increase the risk of cot death as the baby would not be in the cot.

I have said on the other thread about these "new" guidelines that I get very annoyed by this, as the SIDS stats for co-sleeping have been conflated with babies dying from suffocation/being squashed/falling out of the bed - these do not really count as SIDS, which is generally from unknown causes, and should not be counted as SIDS stats.

And as another poster has said, if they're calling "falling asleep on the sofa with your baby" co-sleeping, then that's another incorrect conflation, IMO.

So since these stats have all been buggered up completely by adding things together that shouldn't be, it's all pretty much a load of old bollocks and they should stick to the guidelines for SAFE co-sleeping for those who want to.

Agree with retropear infact was thinking the exact same thing today!

Mn will come down like a ton of bricks if anyone dares suggest allowing a baby food before 6 months and always uses the guidelines to make mums feel guilty for even thinking it.

Yet somehow these guidelines (which are to prevent babies dying ) will be ignored, disbelieved and never spoken of again